The Rich Really Do Pay Higher Taxes Than You

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Bluesguy, Oct 10, 2019.

  1. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    As the data shows YES we have a highly progressive tax system already yet we hear from the Democrats "The rich must pay their fair share". And the lower earners pay more than the top earners.

    Balderdash

    "Contrary to the narrative that seems to be forming on the political left, the U.S. federal tax code is very progressive. According to the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office, the lowest-income 20% of households have an average federal tax rate of about 2%. Those in the middle 20% pay 14% of their income in federal taxes. Higher-income households face higher rates. The top 20% pay a 27% federal rate. And the federal tax rate for the top 1% is 33%. These data are for 2016, the most recent year available.

    This is half of the story. When assessing the progressivity of the U.S. federal system, it makes sense to look at both taxes and the means-tested transfer payments — Medicaid, food stamps and Supplemental Security Income — that those taxes fund.

    If you subtract these payments from federal taxes paid, the tax rate for the top 20% of households (including the top 1%) is unchanged, as those households don’t receive means-tested benefits. The tax rate for households in the middle 20% drops considerably, from 14% to 9%. And the rate for the bottom 20% of households plummets to minus 70%. Those households receive $49 in transfer payments for every $1 they pay in federal tax."
    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/rich-really-pay-higher-taxes-123005474.html

    Yet the Warrens and the Sanders promise to make the highest earners pay even more and then transfer even more to the lower incomes. There ain't nothing about that making anything "fairer" and in fact will in the end hurt all income groups.
     
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  2. 61falcon

    61falcon Well-Known Member

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    The tax code was rewritten effective for tax year 2018,so your data is useless.
     
  3. Sanskrit

    Sanskrit Well-Known Member

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    It wasn't "rewritten," and any changes of late to the IRC will still result in similar percentages as claimed in the OP. But I'm sure OP appreciates your bump of the thread.

    To the topic, that "the rich" do not pay "their fair share" of taxes is in the top ten lie narratives of all the Left-Complex's HUNDREDS if not THOUSANDS of lie narratives.

    And applying the decoder ring to all the lie narratives on wealth resentment? It's not about taking "from the rich" "for the poor," it's about taking more from the average, middle class private sector taxpayer for the enrichment of the gov-edu-union-contractor-grantee-trial lawyer-MSM Complex. They need, no... they REQUIRE... "the poor" to stay poor and dependent on the Complex. If enough of "the poor" escape the Complex Plantation somehow, they have to get busy breeding and importing more. Most of their "policies" are aimed at creating MORE poverty and misery, which entrenches government dependence, not less.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2019
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  4. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    More balderdash.
     
  5. opion8d

    opion8d Banned Donor

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    Tax tables don't tell the story because of deductibles and the way they are handled. Investments are also not covered adequately to measure wealth. After taxes, billionaires are still billionaires and millionaires are still millionaires. It is undeniable that income and wealth disparity has grown dramatically in America. The concentration of wealth in the top 1-2% is alarming. Tax tables be damned, the the wealth gap is huge and growing. That is the number that tells the story of society's circumstances.

    How long will this situation and trend continue is an interesting question. Most super wealthy have offshore or foreign residences and investments to ensure survival should the roof fall in.
     
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  6. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    ...and investments are bought with money that was subject to income tax.

    Thank god for that. Imagine what people have to go through to earn enough to be a millionaire and then have the government steal it all. No incentive to gain wealth, no wealth.

    True but it shouldn't be alarming. It happened because the "global" economy put working people in competition with working people in other countries.

    It is how the wealthy protect their wealth from people like you.
     
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  7. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    And made more progressive with increases in the standard deductions and childcare credits. Prove otherwise.
     
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  8. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    The tables are based on effective tax rate and bottom line revenues. We don't tax wealth and will not in the future.
     
  9. 61falcon

    61falcon Well-Known Member

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    Ask yourself why has the number of homeless ballooned over the past few years and is now affecting even small town America while those in the upper income are owning more and more of the nations total wealth????
     
  10. Wildjoker5

    Wildjoker5 Well-Known Member

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    State and local housing ordinances and increasing illegal immigrants seeking freebies in liberal leftist "utopias".
     
  11. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Mainly because it is unconstitutional, knowledge of which Warren is totally devoid of.
     
  12. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yes she makes out like she as President can just declare a new tax and that's it. It took a constitutional amendment to get an income tax. It will take the same to get a direct tax on the wealth of the citizens. THEN how to assess that wealth every year? What would it cost just to assess those persons wealth? Imagine on the court cases as people challenge the assessments.
     
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  13. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Drug addicition, why should a person addicited to drugs and/or alcohol to the extent they cannot provide for themsleves expect to see their wealth increase?
     
  14. 61falcon

    61falcon Well-Known Member

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    A SIGNIFICANT number of homeless are u.s.VETERANS!!!!!
     
  15. ButterBalls

    ButterBalls Well-Known Member

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    So am I to understand that tax's should reduce Billionaires to millionaires and millionaires to three figure and eventually over time low five figure and finally welfare subsidies?

    Man that's some progressive taxation :)
     
  16. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Or, if someone has all of his wealth in high rise apartments and condos, how does he pay 1% of it each year..... send the government a truck load of bricks and a few toilets?????
     
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  17. KAMALAYKA

    KAMALAYKA Well-Known Member

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    This isn't the whole picture. Many wealthy people avoid taxes through loopholes.
     
  18. 61falcon

    61falcon Well-Known Member

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    There is an estimate in the nations media right now that the Dirty Donald tax cuts have cost middle class Americans over TWO TRILLION DOLLARS.The offending item being the limitation of $10,000 on real estate tax deduction which they estimate is costing at least 4% on the resale of a home, in high real estate tax states.That 4% reduction in value translates to a combined two trillion in loss of resale value, to our middle class.
     
  19. ButterBalls

    ButterBalls Well-Known Member

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    Well considering who the rich is up against, I'd say "Pound of Flesh", JUST to start with!
     
  20. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    No that is the picture it toto. That is based on the taxpayers and the taxes they pay. Most HIGH EARNERS, do you not understand we do not tax wealth at the federal level we tax income, pay that highest effective tax rates which is why the top 1% of taxpayers pay 40% of income taxes and the top 10% of taxpayers pays 80% of income taxes and the bottom 50% pay virtually nothing. So it that is not progressive enough what would be?

    Now if you are going to challenge my figures then post yours not just you simple dismals. I cited my numbers YOUR turn.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2019
  21. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    For some reason the left believe wealthy people sit on huge piles of cash. Of course the way people get wealthy is putting their wealth to work in investment as appreciable assets not sitting in cash and they have all that cash just sitting there to pay a wealth tax. Business will have to be sold, homes will have to be sold, cars, furniture, pieces of art , jewlery. And EVERY YEAR.

    Of course that only after the round and round of court challenges to the assessed value of all those items of wealth.
     
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  22. KAMALAYKA

    KAMALAYKA Well-Known Member

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    Yes. I understand how taxation in America works. All educated adults do.

    But you don't seem to understand the dozens of loopholes that exist.
     
  23. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    That's not the middle class and I though you guys wanted to tax the wealthy and high income earners more and get rid of their tax loopholes? Why should I in a low property tax state have to subsidize those in high property tax states? They don't like then cut their state taxes why should they pay less federal tax than me.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2019
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  24. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    I understand them fully and the numbers I posted are post loopholes. Those are the EFFECTIVE RATES they EFFECTIVELY pay after the loopholes. You do understand what the effective rate is. These are the ACTUAL dollars paid.

    So please answer what I asked.

    The top 1% of taxpayers pay 40% of income taxes and the top 10% of taxpayers pays 80% of income taxes and the bottom 50% pay virtually nothing. So it that is not progressive enough what would be?
     
  25. edthecynic

    edthecynic Well-Known Member

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    even your MessiahRushie admits that is BS.

    August 7, 2007
    CALLER: And, you know, and the way our tax system works, we have an overly complex system, which in and of itself is a problem, but the way our tax system works and the way the tax laws are written, it's based on a few kind of like hinge numbers like adjusted gross income and taxable income, and while the soak the rich -- or however you choose to describe it -- really doesn't come down that way. It really comes down to much lower income levels.

    RUSH: It does, exactly, and here's the dirty little secret if you ever to pull it off. It's hard. This is why most people don't understand the tax-the-rich business. You've got to structure your life so you have no "earned" income. I'm out of time. I'll explain that. There's a category called earned income versus other kinds of income. Earned income is what the income tax rate is on. That's how "the rich" do it. They don't have "earned" income.
    END TRANSCRIPT

    The Truth About Taxes
    August 6, 2007
    RUSH: I've told you before: the income tax is designed to keep people like his [Buffett's] secretary from becoming wealthy! There is no "wealth" tax. So this is a big misnomer. ...

    But there's no tax on wealth. There is a tax on income, and the tax on income is designed to keep everybody who is not wealthy from getting there.
    I'm talking about genuine wealth, not the way Democrats define "rich."
     

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