The rise of anti-science

Discussion in 'Science' started by usfan, Apr 4, 2014.

  1. LaDairis

    LaDairis Banned

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    It is absolutely amazing to see who is "first in line" to grab the $$$ from bogus "climate damages." Mugabe is one...
     
  2. usfan

    usfan Banned

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    It is the attempt to USE science as a tool of propaganda, instead of a method of discovery. They do the same with Law.. instead of due process, emotional demands for some vague sense of injustice, with no crime defined.
     
  3. usfan

    usfan Banned

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  4. tkolter

    tkolter Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't call half the world is dumb someone below the norm in IQ can compensate with a practical life experience for example they may not be gifted but learned about the world and dealing with people well OR might be good working with their hands in a craft in applied use of select higher concepts. And a higher IQ might not lead to college anyway if they don't desire it. But science is hard you need a high IQ, the desire to work in an area of science and have a passion for it so I consider it a calling.

    But I remember watching the old version of War of the Worlds last month and how the common people looked up to scientists the military deferred to them on countering the Martians and asked their opinions and wanted a scientific base of operations to keep them working knowing regular weapons even the A-Bomb the latest type failed to take out the enemy. Now you have science being bad more often than good it seems even if science and reason proved to be the greatest tool our species has produced to advance our species over any other.
     
  5. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Science is science and this structured process is about experiments and theories and empirical data. If someone wishes to politicize science this does not change the experiments and theories and empirical data. Anyone who tries to persuade or force a different outcome derived from the scientific process is not conducting science...they are conducting BS. The problem might lie in gullible people, ignorant people, who don't understand and/or respect the scientific process. Why are these people fine with BS? I don't think it's anti-science because these people don't know science, don't respect scientific disciplines; they're simply too stupid, biased, brainwashed, lazy...these people make good prey for the political or religious leaders...
     
  6. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We are in a period of post normal science influenced by ideology, politics, and perverse incentives such as having to publish papers for advancement based on quantity and not quality.
     
  7. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Or.... is it also a significant part of the New Age and Spirituality Movement and
    are obviously unethical companies like Monsanto driving people in that direction
    with technology like terminator seeds?

    - - - Updated - - -

    BigPharma's unethical practices and the increase in awareness of
    what has been done could also be a significant part of the backlash.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAMYAoiCSsI
    Cancer The Forbidden Cures!
     
  8. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Anti Science is a result of Science :worship: becoming too dogmatic and a gov't sponsored faith.

    Witness the, Don't Eat Cholesterol era and the margarine :roll: oopsy.
    Don't get my list, started.

    Any real, human knows Michelle Obama's School Kids need whole milk, meat, poultry
    in a quality they don't see at home.
    Truly fresh veggies - not salad, and made from scratch potato. No add water or frozen.
    Thanks to Michelle and her pseudo science, School kids miss out on high quality protein and "good" fats.
    Pass the apple wedges, Yum.

    Let Science be less dogmatic, more honest with less purpose driven funding -
    and I betchya there would be less anti Science.​



    Moi :oldman:
    Pluto is the 9th planet
    and a planetary system
    like Earth/Moon

    History counts for something too.


    r > g


    View attachment 43678
    Build The Wall!
    Across an immense, unguarded, ethereal border, Canadians, cool and unsympathetic,
    regard our America with envious eyes and slowly and surely draw their plans against us.
     
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  9. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I absolutely agree!

    Richard Dawkins Ph. D. is by definition lying......
    when he terms himself an Atheist.....
    at the same time that he admits that it is
    quite possible that an advanced alien species
    might well have evolved long before we humans did.....
    and that alien species might well have played a role in
    human evolution and even in our history.

    Once this is admitted..... we are down to a definition of
    "G-d".... based on exactly how technologically advanced that
    "alien species" might perhaps have became and............
    we also would not only have to look at alien as being from another galaxy but......

    obviously..... a species from a higher dimension of space time would of course.....
    also be "alien."


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SL7CCyuXAS4
    Richard Dawkins: Aliens Seeded Earth?


    ......
     
  10. usfan

    usfan Banned

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    It is very bizarre.. Science, at its core, is non partisan. It does not care about opinions, or beliefs, or any of the fears & phobias of man. ScientISTS, otoh, are human beings, & they care very much about opinions, beliefs, & the phobias of man. the whole point of the scientific method is to propose a non partisan methodology for discovery. It is not supposed to be a political statement, or to be used by some as a club.

    But alas, humans, being what they are, have hijacked science, as they have done for millennia, to manipulate the common man. Science has historically been in the domain of the aristocracy & the religious elite, as the common man had to work & feed his family. For a brief time, during & after WW2, science was seen as a method of defeating a terrible enemy, & employed for that purpose. Then, all kinds of labor & productive uses for mechanization & scientific principles were found, & it began to be worshiped as a god. Children got telescopes & microscopes & chemistry sets for christmas, & many a young person heeded the call into the popular & respected fields of scientific endeavor.

    Science was good. It deterred our enemies. It gave sight to the blind, & legs to the lame. It gave us cheap food, lucrative jobs, & an industrial economy, manufacturing all manner of space age devices, dazzling the consumer with possibilities never imagined by their parents. Machines that could wash your clothes, cook your meals, heat & cool your homes, transfer you from one place to another in blinding speed, for minimal cost. That was the peak of Science... in the 50's, imo.. as the Savior of humanity.

    And the adoration of science went beyond the actual science.. the scientISTS themselves took on a godlike quality.. they were perfectly reasonable.. never any bias, driven only by facts & reason. They were Mr Spock, with no emotional or political agendas to color their world. They would lead us into the promised land of pure ideology, based on Reason & Empiricism, without the deceitfulness or duplicity of man.

    But ever so slowly, they began to fail us. They told us butter was bad... then a few years later, changed their minds.. no, margarine is bad.. butter is good. Then, pork is bad.. chicken is bad.. beef is bad.. fish is bad.. somebody was always crying doom & gloom for something that we always took for granted. Cars are bad. Industrialization is bad. Air conditioning & refrigeration is bad, & will blow out the ozone layer, & fry us all in UV rays. Suddenly, science seemed driven by corporate or political interests. The tobacco industry swore, with stacks of doctors, that smoking was fine. Our cars were no longer our friends, but would destroy the earth, if we don't ban them all right now. The coastlines will flood, we will evolve gills, & begin swimming around in a world of water. Or, all land would become a parched wasteland, with leather clad bikers roaring around killing everyone & stealing their food.

    But years went by, & the coastlines did not flood. Skeptics arose, claiming the 'science' was flawed from many of the so-called experts. Suspicion increased, & the awareness of a human element inserted itself into the once pure domain of Enlightened Science.

    IMO, science is still good.. or at least can be harnessed for good or evil, as humans use it. It is like the sun.. it is there burning brightly, delivering heat & light to a perfectly balanced planet, providing the perfect balance for life. But it can cook us, too, or burn us to a crisp, if we get too close.

    Science is merely a tool.. a useful method of discovery. It is important to realize that one of the foremost virtues in ANY scientific discipline is SKEPTICISM. You don't believe someone based on their credentials, or their social standing, or where they are in the religious or political hierarchy. You examine the EVIDENCE, & see if the reasoning & facts fit the theory, or compel the conclusions being offered. If they do, you have some good science you can count on for humanity. If it does not, its not the first hypothesis to fail or go back to the drawing board. But one thing that a scientist should NEVER do is ridicule or discourage skepticism or critical evaluation of a claim. That is for charlatans & manipulators, or people with an agenda.
     
  11. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Mandates and decree are not science - they come as our decision making process struggles to cope with the information that science provides.

    You're complaint is with a government/decision making process that has become less and less informed by science.

    And, as we allow our education system to fail, as we promote science as the enemy of religion, as we cater to the wealthy who have personal gain at stake, it's no wonder that we're accepting less and less from science, regardless of all evidence and reason.
     
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  12. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    I remember long ago when science was revered. When science said if a person walks over a 1000 foot cliff edge gravity will pull them towards Earth to their demise we accepted the science of gravitational influences. Today, certain people question scientific information with zero regard for the facts or truth so I suspect we'll soon see more people falling off cliffs! Are more people just stupid? Are they intellectually lazy? Are they brainwashed? We can't even have a nice dialogue without some making personal threats and insults, etc. When did everyone become so righteous and closed-minded? Why are we like this today?
     
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  13. usfan

    usfan Banned

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    IMO, it is a backlash because of the misuse of science, as a propaganda tool. People get tired of being manipulated by 'experts' claiming the mantle of science, so they blame the whole thing. Margarine or butter? Beef, chicken, fish? GMOs? Vaccinations? Global warming, or cooling?

    Everyone with an agenda tries to slap the 'science!' sticker on their pet belief, especially if it means grant money, or some kind of personal gain. So the unscientific layperson becomes skeptical, and throws the whole industry out as full of hucksters and charlatans.

    Personal ability with scientific methodology is discouraged, giving the 'expert' an air of infallibility.

    But for the true scientist, whose skepticism remains intact in the face of expert assertions, the scientific method is a great purifier of claims, sifting the BS from actual facts.

    Unfortunately, scientific methodology is not taught, or revered as it once was, and we are left with decrees and mandates from self proclaimed elites.. and we are told to not worry our pretty little heads about these things.. we can trust them to deliver the Truth. And when they fail, and man ALWAYS fails, there is a loss of credibility. Some do not place the skepticism where it belongs, at the feet of the decreeing elites, but they throw the baby out with the bathwater, and mistrust anything with the 'science!' sticker on it.
     
  14. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    This hits me as an unsubstantiated scatter shot.

    Vaccinations? There isn't any question on this one - at all.

    Climate change? Science is shockingly unified on this one. The legitimate debate is in the arena of public policy response.

    Food? I'm not sure what you are complaining about. Different foods have different issues related both to health and environmental impact. These issues aren't all going to be aligned.

    And, it is certainly NOT science that discourages science education.

    You should be skeptical of your categorical statements about abstract groupings and agendas of "elites".
     
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  15. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Please let us know when there is a verified, peer reviewed encounter.
     
  16. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    There is no such thing as a 'science sticker'. The discipline of science is science and nothing else.

    People need to be more astute, more cynical, more intelligent about what they read and embrace. One reason we have people trying to pretend to be scientific is because they can get away with it. It's like our president constantly lying because he knows his 42% base believes anything he says. The same with science and everything else in life...buyer beware!

    What does it say about people who deny the scientific process?
     
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  17. delade

    delade Well-Known Member

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    Can you explain to me scientific, measured infallibility, of ice ages?

    Several questions off hand.

    Does evolution occur multiple times? Is there a new set of evolution processes after each epoch? This does not take into account the other lives as well, such as agricultural life. And is carbon half life dating 100 percent reliable? If there were 10 samples of the same sample from the same source, and they were individually carbon dated, would all 10 results be within, give or take, the same time?
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2018
  18. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Science IS NOT a closed mind. Science IS NOT infallible. Science is an open mind subject to change.

    That you should ask such questions above shows you do not understand the scientific process...
     
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  19. wyly

    wyly Well-Known Member

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    a lot of this comes from the internet and people believing everything they read as gospel for no other reason than it's "written down somewhere, therefore must be true" and it agrees with their previous held belief they share with their tribe/politcal party...with the internet everyone can now reach millions of like minded idiots to reaffirm their erroneous beliefs
     
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  20. delade

    delade Well-Known Member

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    So scientists are willing to admit that the evolutionary idea could be fslse?
     
  21. wyly

    wyly Well-Known Member

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    scientists go where the evidence leads them...the Theory of Evolution has proven to be true, until someone comes up with a hypothesis that withstands challenges and displaces ToE that the way is stays...science continually adapts to new knowledge.

    are christians, muslims, hindu's willing to admit that religious books could be false?
     
  22. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    Moar Anti-American Propaganda, while there are enough fringe elements in America promulgating wild Rubish, You will find America also inspires and promotes Scientific Research and more money in America, is earmarked for that purpose than by any other Nation on the Planet.
     
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  23. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    Then you overlook recent U.K. studies showing an extremely low calorie diet can cause remission of type 2 diabetes.

    https://www.diabetes.org.uk/researc...ht/research-spotlight-low-calorie-liquid-diet
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2018
  24. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    Ambroise Paré (c. 1510 – 20 December 1590) was a French barber surgeonwho served in that role for kings Henry II, Francis II, Charles IX and Henry III.

    He is considered one of the fathers of surgery and modern forensic pathology and a pioneer in surgical techniques and battlefield medicine, especially in the treatment of wounds. He was also an anatomist and invented several surgical instruments. He was also part of the Parisian Barber Surgeon guild.

    Congratulations !!!
    Another graduate of Pare's school of advanced primitive medicines !
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2018
  25. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So? The world isn't binary. The fact that anti-science mostly originates in american partisan politics and culture wars these days cannot be denied.

    It appears as tho you think pointing out reality is anti-american. But then again, there's lots of americans who believe their own publicity and refuse to recognize any of their myriad weaknesses (its always somebody else's fault in partisan circles).
     
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