The Saudi Murder: Rush to Judgment?

Discussion in 'Middle East' started by Starjet, Oct 17, 2018.

  1. Starjet

    Starjet Active Member Past Donor

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    FOX NEWS FIRST: Trump warns against rush to judgment in missing activist case;

    In the article, he compares the Kavanaugh Case to this one. Asserts that the crown prince deserves a presumption of innocence. Huh? A religious dictator compared to an American judge? Really? Come on.

    A presumption of innocence?

    Like hell! In his embassy? On his watch? Under his dictatorship? Without his knowledge? Without his sanction?

    Not buying it?

    And yet...The Mutaween...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_religious_police

    Is the House of Saudi under attack?
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2018
  2. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member

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    So in your opinion the presumption of innocence only applies to certain people?
     
  3. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Well-Known Member

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    Democrats want to go off half cocked and destroy our relatelation with a middle East ally before the evidence is in.Trumps cool headed approach shows who is the adult in the room here and I'm glad he's in charge instead of the hot headed children.
     
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  4. Starjet

    Starjet Active Member Past Donor

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    Nope.

    Fact: He's a dictator. Fact: Nothing happens without a dictator's approval. Fact: He sanctioned it...or...
    His power is being challenged by the Mutaween. In either case, sever all ties with Saudi Arabia until it becomes a free nation.
     
  5. Starjet

    Starjet Active Member Past Donor

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    Guilty or innocent, the Saudi's are detrimental to America's self-interest. If he's guilty, he just knifed us in the back; if he's not guilty, then he's a figurehead and the Mutaween have the real power. Which again, is bad for America.

    Freeze their assets, sever diplomatic relations, and boycott them economically. Perhaps by applying the same sanctions to the Saudi's as we do to Iran, they will both become suicidal and weak and destroy each other.
     
  6. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member

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    So you're saying dictators should not be afforded innocence before proven guilty?
     
  7. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Well-Known Member

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    Yeah just what we want. Destabilizing the Mideast. That's a good plan. There's no evidence yet there even was a murder and anyone calling for any action until there is should just kind of be ignored
     
  8. Starjet

    Starjet Active Member Past Donor

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    Yeah, you're right. It truly would destabilize the most of stable of areas, the Mideast.

    It's amazing how many dictators' asses Trump and his supporters are willing to kiss. Expediency over principle always. Because principles are for the naive and the hopelessly idealistic. What's it feel like to have a soul with no principles? Empty, I bet.

    Ayn Rand: "The man who refuses to judge, who neither agrees nor disagrees, who declares that there are no absolutes and believes that he escapes responsibility, is the man responsible for all the blood that is now spilled in the world. Reality is an absolute, existence is an absolute, a speck of dust is an absolute and so is a human life . . .

    There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil. The man who is wrong still retains some respect for truth, if only by accepting the responsibility of choice. But the man in the middle is the knave who blanks out the truth in order to pretend that no choice or values exist."
    http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/moral_judgment.html
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2018
  9. Starjet

    Starjet Active Member Past Donor

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    On principle, yes. He's dictator. He's quilty just for breathing. He has no rights. He deserves a bullet to the head. But I'll be satisfied with an end to our Saudi relationship.
     
  10. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member

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    Sure glad you clarified that.
     
  11. goody

    goody Well-Known Member

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    The Post, the Times, and CNN all published some of the passports of 15 Saudi nationals that allegedly visited the consulate in Istanbul the night he was detained. How these passports got in the hands of these 3? Even the Turkish media use what they release... Last time I checked the incident has occured in Turkey! The investigation was being conducted by Turkish officials, and all the evidences (2 trucks load) that were collected from the consulate was transfered to a Turkish CSI laboratory in Istanbul.

    If Turks are immediately informing these 3 media companies then:
    1- We know Erdogan had to release Branson because of the overwhelming pressure put by the WH.
    a) Trump and Erdogan are on the same side; the global populist camp. So this economic pressure was either unleashed by the group that was pointed out by the anonymous NYT op-ed author a while back, or that foreign policy dispute they had in Syria is reflecting on internal affairs. The latter is unlikely due to the nature of politics.
    b) if the real source of the pressure behind Branson's release was the "lodestar" then we have a hypothesis and some subhypotheses to assess;
    • Khashoggi's case is a scam:
      • Turkish government is up to something:
        • Turkish government is on the Eurasian opportunists' camp now and they used Khashoggi to target primarily the US decision making on foreign policy. And secondarily to capture the Saudi cow to milk with their Eurasian opportunist friends. They need Arabia to finance their cause.
      • Above scenario was noted by the Lodestar crew before it got put in play. The Lodestar crew still keep the pressure on Turkish government with the use of one or few of many leverages they have.
        • They initially want Saudis to dock back at their port again with the help of Turks who still owe them lots of favors.
     
  12. Starjet

    Starjet Active Member Past Donor

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    No prob
     
  13. Starjet

    Starjet Active Member Past Donor

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    Nah. Doesn’t make sense.
     
  14. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Well-Known Member

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    If there is evidence first that this murder happened and second it was sanctioned by the Saudi government steps will be taken to show our displeasure but the cut off your own nose to spite your face strategy would do more harm than good.
     
  15. goody

    goody Well-Known Member

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    Your mom does tho...
     
  16. Starjet

    Starjet Active Member Past Donor

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    Well, the Saudis might be your nose, but not mine.

    They are a cancer that needs to be removed as soon as is morally possible, as well as any other morally despicable dictatorship.
     
  17. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Well-Known Member

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    Let's say we kill the arms deal with Saudi to "punish" them. They then buy arms from Russia and enrich them as America loses jobs and revenue. Saudi isn't punished but working americans are. That is classic cutting off your nose to spite your face.
     
  18. Tergara

    Tergara Active Member

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    Honestly? I'm betting that the issue is that our Saudi bud put this guy on a list of 'capture him if you can'. Then when he went to get registered for marriage they grabbed him. Someone decided to beat one of those fun confessions out of him and accidentally killed him.

    So I doubt he directly ordered what happened, but I fully believe his actions make him responsible.
     
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  19. 61falcon

    61falcon Well-Known Member

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    Dirty Donald will do anything to keep intact his personal financial support from the Saudi's.
     
  20. Starjet

    Starjet Active Member Past Donor

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    If America’s survival means compromising her principles, then she won’t survive as a free nation—when good compromises with evil, only evil wins.

    Saudi Arabia is not part of America. Saudi Arabia is not our nose, she is a boil on our ass and needs to be lanced.
     

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