The Texas shooting shows the futility of arming teachers

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Arkanis, May 25, 2022.

  1. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2015
    Messages:
    10,885
    Likes Received:
    8,685
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You do know that those same "armed, trained, and insured professionals" are civilians also right? Did you also know that more often than not a civilian is actually better at shooting and hitting their target than those trained cops?

    You should also note that I said that "I'm not demanding any teacher wear any hat". I never said that we can't ask them. There is a difference. Your previous post suggested that we were demanding such of them. No one is doing that. Ask? Sure. Do they have to? Nope. I wish we didn't have to. But I'm not averse to it either. We could always hire guards to do the job also. You know, like banks do. Aren't our kids worth paying that extra bit to hire some guards? Like we do for congress critters?
     
  2. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2018
    Messages:
    33,209
    Likes Received:
    31,556
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    @truth and justice here is the post I thought you might like to see
     
  3. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2009
    Messages:
    29,623
    Likes Received:
    11,396
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I don't have a link. I heard it reported on Fox. One was in Dallas and the other was in a town that I don't remember. The Fox site may have something on it. We can and should stop potential school shooters before they act. We refuse to do that for some strange reason.
     
  4. Lucifer

    Lucifer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2014
    Messages:
    11,401
    Likes Received:
    7,034
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    And many school districts already do this. Did you forget that there was a guard on duty at the Stoneman Douglas school in 2018?

    Let's get rid of the guns that make these incidents far deadlier and easier to perform.
     
  5. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2009
    Messages:
    29,623
    Likes Received:
    11,396
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Shotguns are used commonly by police but only rarely by military. The basic weapon is the rifle. I was an expert marksman and also qualified on the M60 machine gun and the 4.2" mortar. I never even handled or saw a shotgun in the military during the Vietnam era. Some folks might have used them but I didn't encounter any of them.
     
  6. DentalFloss

    DentalFloss Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2013
    Messages:
    9,287
    Likes Received:
    1,842
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Everyone has their limits, no matter how law and order you are under reasonable circumstances. For some conservatives, including some libertarians, one line in the sand is to attempt to disarm everyone in the country by force. Other examples might include a President signing an Executive Order making him or herself POTUS for life and cancelling all future elections as long as they were alive. Or, laws that make petty crimes (say, jaywalking) punishable by the death penalty. I'm as pro-death-penalty as you'll find, but that's so far beyond reason that it may represent a time when it's time to take up arms, which we do and will continue to have, to reinstate a more reasonable government.

    If you don't have your own lines in the sand, then you never learned the lessons of the start of the USA and the American Revolution. "Give me liberty, or give me death!"... Some things are worth dying for, don't you think? Probably not, I think, you seem way too afraid of dying to put your life on the line for a principal, even banning guns... You willing to be on one of the teams going door to door to force compliance? I bet you never served in the military for the very same reason. A complete unwillingness to die, even for a good cause.

    To get me interested, it would have to be 100x the actual street price for my weapons, but even then, I wouldn't give all of them up. I'll keep at least one semi-auto rifle, probably my AR because it's the one I'm the most familiar with, so I can do things like clean and oil it quickly, and I'll keep at least one concealed carry semi-auto pistol, and a full sized one as well. But if Uncle wants the rest of my guns so bad they're willing to pay me 100x what I could get for them on the open market, well, that might work. I inherited a single shot .22 from my dad, it might make a good weapon if I wanted to assonate someone quietly, but it's pointless other than that, and I don't think I'll ever need something like that, so I'll take $100,000 for it. Looks more like a collectable or museum piece.
     
  7. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2015
    Messages:
    47,359
    Likes Received:
    20,963
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Fox News did report that an armed woman with a concealed handgun stopped a mass shooting at a graduation:

    “A woman with a concealed handgun stopped a mass shooting this week after a man attacked a graduation party in Charleston, West Virginia.

    "Police said a woman who was lawfully carrying a pistol shot and killed a man who began shooting at a crowd of people Wednesday night in Charleston," location Fox 11 reported about the incident. "Dennis Butler was killed after allegedly shooting at dozens of people attending a graduation party Wednesday near the Vista View Apartment complex. No injuries were reported from those at the party. Investigators said Butler was warned about speeding in the area with children present before he left. He later returned with an AR-15-style firearm and began firing into the crowd before he was shot and killed."
    TOWNHALL.COM, The Near Mass Shooting Most of the Media Won't Tell You About, By Katie Pavlich, May 27, 2022.
    https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katie...ost-of-the-media-wont-tell-you-about-n2607884
     
  8. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2016
    Messages:
    16,293
    Likes Received:
    12,877
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    A primary reason we can't solve problems is that so many people can't be reasonable.

    FBI statistic: More people are killed as a result of beatings without weapons (meaning fists and feet) than are killed by all rifles of all styles and calibers combined.
    Let me know when you are ready to have your hands and feet confiscated, because they are deadly weapons.

    The "NSA" is the National Security Agency. I agree they would be hard to stop. Edward Snowden tried and revealed they were collecting personal private data on citizens illegally- but instead of prosecuting the NSA, they prosecute Snowden.

    One of the primary reasons for the second amendment was to insure the ability of the people to defend against tyranny. IF we disarm the people, the government would have total physical power over everybody- including you. The ABILITY to defend is what makes it unnecessary to defend. But there will always be fools and crazy people. The responsible people who carry concealed would take those nuts out on the spot, but the government would at most house and feed them for the rest of their lives at your expense- or turn them out on the street to do it again. We need more responsible people.
    This is a "dumb" area, where emotion over-rides common sense. Taking guns from law abiding people is like sending cops to a fatal wreck, and having them arrest the car instead of the drunk driver.
    Come back when you figure it out.
     
    Ddyad likes this.
  9. DentalFloss

    DentalFloss Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2013
    Messages:
    9,287
    Likes Received:
    1,842
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It's a rifle with select fire capability. While they are legal in the United States, the supply has been greatly reduced due to a stupid Law congress passes making it legal only for weapons manufactured in 1986 or before, meaning the price of such things has gone up to a crazy degree. A common AR-15 is about $1,000, whereas a select fire M-16 was, the last time I checked which was several years ago, running about $30,000. In addition, they are not usually sold at gun retailers, rather when sold, it happens person to person, so between that and the costs involved, the chances that the Texas shooter did not use one are 99.99999%

    Appearance does not make a normal rifle into an assault rifle, rather they have different specifications.
     
  10. Tigger2

    Tigger2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2020
    Messages:
    3,240
    Likes Received:
    1,512
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Oh yes.
    Guns don't kill children
    People kill children.
    Using guns.
     
  11. DentalFloss

    DentalFloss Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2013
    Messages:
    9,287
    Likes Received:
    1,842
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Bravery is not the absence of fear. It's the ability to act despite that fear.

    First, those 73% wouldn't be forced to be. 27%, trained properly, would be more than enough.

    And as for betting whether or not those teachers would have rather had a gun instead of just becoming a human shield for their students, it's easy to say no when it's not actually happening.
     
  12. Tigger2

    Tigger2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2020
    Messages:
    3,240
    Likes Received:
    1,512
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I've yet to hear of someone killing 2 teachers and 19 children with their fists.
    You can't remove peoples hands and feet without harming them, but you can remove guns.

    Anyway why are you arguing with me I'm on your side, what's a few kids when you can buy one of these.
    [​IMG]
     
  13. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    18,268
    Likes Received:
    8,619
    Trophy Points:
    113

    All the details of the shooting are constantly changing. Many voices telling many stories. Reminiscent of Mary Stoneman Douglas shooting a few years back, another vacant-eyed teen boy.
     
  14. DentalFloss

    DentalFloss Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2013
    Messages:
    9,287
    Likes Received:
    1,842
    Trophy Points:
    113
    If it was as many as you seem to think, repealing the 2A would be easy peasey. There's a reason that is not going to happen, and it's not because so many American's want to be like Australia. And I am an American Citizen who actually lives in America, whereas you are a foreigner from the other side of the planet who seems to be speaking for the US.

    This whole topic is none of your business, and if you're too afraid to come here because we have so many guns, we won't miss you.
     
  15. popscott

    popscott Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2021
    Messages:
    5,576
    Likes Received:
    3,460
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I have just seen documentaries and such, I thought they were used more in the tight bush. Maybe not..
     
  16. DentalFloss

    DentalFloss Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2013
    Messages:
    9,287
    Likes Received:
    1,842
    Trophy Points:
    113
    "Military style" is about cosmetics. Cosmetics do not make a weapon more or less dangerous.

    "Rapid fire" is almost a more ridiculous term, as ALL rifles (and handguns) are as rapid fire (or not) as the person handling them can make them be. It's one bullet for every pull of the trigger, and the only thing that makes a semi-automatic weapon even close to rapid fire is a well-trained operator. Besides, with a TRUE rapid fire weapon, more rounds would go into the ceiling than into people, so they actually may be better in situations like this. Not for the bad guy, but at least potentially for the would-be victims.
     
  17. Buri

    Buri Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2018
    Messages:
    4,840
    Likes Received:
    3,826
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Drunks kill people using cars.
    Drunks. You know, the person responsible.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2022
  18. Montegriffo

    Montegriffo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2017
    Messages:
    8,747
    Likes Received:
    7,330
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    It says citizen of the United Kingdom in my passport.
    Nor was it an offence to not wear a mask outdoors.
    You are correct about fb posts.
    We do arrest and fine people for making racist or grossly offensive posts, God save the Queen.
     
    Tigger2 likes this.
  19. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2020
    Messages:
    6,017
    Likes Received:
    6,589
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I don't think 2A should be repealed.

    I work in the US.

    I don't care if you don't think it's my business or not.
     
    Lucifer likes this.
  20. Buri

    Buri Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2018
    Messages:
    4,840
    Likes Received:
    3,826
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    So there’s no freedom of speech. That is just awful, the word police is another reason never to disarm.
     
    DentalFloss likes this.
  21. Montegriffo

    Montegriffo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2017
    Messages:
    8,747
    Likes Received:
    7,330
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    We're a country of law and order.
    Deeply conservative.
    You should try it, our last school shooting was in 1996.
     
  22. Tigger2

    Tigger2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2020
    Messages:
    3,240
    Likes Received:
    1,512
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Indeed. Which is why we don't let you drive a car while drunk.
    Or own a gun if your insane..Oh wait :shock:
     
  23. Cybred

    Cybred Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2020
    Messages:
    10,774
    Likes Received:
    3,863
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    So which one of these is correct?
     
  24. Tigger2

    Tigger2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2020
    Messages:
    3,240
    Likes Received:
    1,512
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    So long as the law prevents me from hitting a person there has to be a limit on freedom of speech.
    Indeed there always was a limit on freedom of speech, you had to watch what you said lest you got a sword through your guts.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2022
  25. DentalFloss

    DentalFloss Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2013
    Messages:
    9,287
    Likes Received:
    1,842
    Trophy Points:
    113
    How?
     

Share This Page