The Trump trilemma: The contradiction at the heart of Trumponomics

Discussion in 'Economics & Trade' started by LafayetteBis, May 19, 2017.

  1. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    From The Economist here: The Trump trilemma - The contradiction at the heart of Trumponomics

    Period.

    America's debt comes cheap because countries world-wide love to hold it since it is denominated in dollars. Which is why, when the dollar drops, countries sell the debt (which only drives the price paid and the dollar lower)! So, foreign trade (which Americans like particularly) becomes more expensive. And, since most of that trade has never or no longer is manufactured in America, there is good reason (depending upon the tradeoff) to kick-start manufacturing. That could be economic goodness, if we had the qualified personnel to man highly automated production lines - but that is not going to create that much employment.

    It is difficult to understand from where Trump is getting his Economics Advice, but there is something very wrong with it. Because the advice is at cross-purposes to what the private-sector is likely to do. That is, go on a spending-spree to boost production and thus higher personal incomes that are subsequently spent on Demand.

    After the Great Recession, in 2014 (long before Trump arrived on the scene) America was already creating jobs. (See the Employment-to-population Ratio History from the BLS). There is no reason to think that job-creation will accelerate with the Unemployment Rate already at rock-bottom.
     
  2. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  3. james M

    james M Banned

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  4. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What pathetic nonsense. What you know about "liberals or socialists who are mostly communists" would fill a thimble. Where do you live? North Korea?

    There is not a "true communist" left on earth - not in Russia, not in China - but solely north of the 38th parallel in Korea.

    You are good at name-calling, but weak on content. Sanders is not a "socialist". Socialism calls for the government ownership of production, and Bernie is more than happy to have private-capitalism owning commerce/industry. All he wants is a "level playing field".

    And that's were America still has it all wrong.

    Europe is far more advanced in what is called Social Democracy - excerpt: ... a political, social and economic ideology that supports economic and social interventions to promote social justice within the framework of a capitalist economy, as well as a policy regime involving a commitment to representative democracy, measures for income redistribution, and regulation of the economy in the general interest as well as welfare-state provisions.

    Where do you see "government ownership of the means of production"?

    Also click on the words "social justice" above, which helps complete the understanding of Social Democracy. To put it simply, Social Democracy is just the next-step in an advance towards fairness and equitability by sharing the advantages of a market-economy based upon capitalism.

    Where America went awry in that quest was JFK's initiative to reduce upper-income taxation (to please his dad). He never got to sign that bill, but LBJ did - which triggered the massive reduction in upper-income taxation completed by Reckless Ronnie.

    Which evolution you can see here:
    [​IMG]
    That massive destruction of upper-income taxation meant that more After-tax Income was shifted up into Wealth. And what did that mean?

    This history (look closely at the years subsequent to 1980 when Reckless Ronnie lowered the upper-income taxation):
    [​IMG]
     
  5. james M

    james M Banned

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    that would come as a surprise to http://www.cpusa.org/( American Communist party) and to Bernie Sanders who honeymooned in the USSR!
     
  6. james M

    james M Banned

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    he self identifies as a socialist!!but really is a communist


    actually he says openly he's a socialist!!While attending the University of Chicago, Sanders joined the Young People’s Socialist League, the youth wing of the Socialist Party USA. He also organized for a communist front, the United Packinghouse Workers Union, which at the time was under investigation by the House Committee on Un-American Activities.

    After graduating with a political science degree, Sanders moved to Vermont, where he headed the American People’s History Society, an organ for Marxist propaganda. There, he produced a glowing documentary on the life of socialist revolutionary Eugene Debs, who was jailed for espionage during the Red Scare and hailed by the Bolsheviks as “America’s greatest Marxist.”



    n 1985, he traveled to Managua to celebrate the rise to power of the Marxist-Leninist Sandinista government. He called it a “heroic revolution.” Undermining anti-communist US policy, Sanders denounced the Reagan administration’s backing of the Contra rebels in a letter to the Sandinistas.

    Sanders: General Electric, good example. General Electric was created in this country by American workers and American consumers....

    Huh? Thomas Edison had nothing to do with it? J.P. Morgan had nothing to do with it? This is Marxist magical thinking,



    Read more: Blog: How much of a communist is Bernie Sanders? (part 2)
    Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook



    hen, in 1989, as the West was on the verge of winning the Cold War, Sanders addressed the national conference of the US Peace Council — a known front for the Communist Party USA, whose members swore an oath not only to the Soviet Union but to “the triumph of Soviet power in the US.”

    Today, Sanders wants to bring what he admired in the USSR, Cuba, Nicaragua and other communist states to America.

    For starters, he proposes completely nationalizing our health care system and putting private health insurance and drug companies “out of business.” He also wants to break up “big banks” and control the energy industry, while providing “free” college tuition, a “living wage” and guaranteed homeownership and jobs through massive public works projects. Price tag: $18 trillion.

    While a Senator only Obama voted to left of Sanders

    Sanders, 73, has been preaching socialism for nearly half a century, and he cites Eugene Debs, the five-time presidential candidate of the Socialist Party of America, as his hero. But he hasn’t always embraced the label.

    “I myself don’t use the word socialism,” he said in 1976 in the Vermont Cynic, a student publication at the University of Vermont,


    Sanders: General Electric, good example. General Electric was created in this country by American workers and American consumers....

    Huh? Thomas Edison had nothing to do with it? J.P. Morgan had nothing to do with it? This is Marxist magical thinking,



    Read more: Blog: How much of a communist is Bernie Sanders? (part 2)
    Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook

    It began for him when he joined the Young People’s Socialist League while a student at the University of Chicago, from which he graduated in 1964. What was the mission of the Young People’s Socialist League?

    It was spelled out in the preamble to its constitution: “The Young People’s Socialist League of America calls upon all young people who are interested in the emancipation of the working class from the chains of wage slavery to join its rank and through it and its associated organizations of the International Socialist Movement, to work for the overthrow of the present capitalist system in all its social and economic ramifications, and for the establishment in its stead of a worldwide socialistic cooperative commonwealth.


    Read more at Is Bernie Sanders a communist?

    Sanders called Sandinista leader Daniel Ortega “an impressive guy,” with “deep convictions.” He then accused the Reagan administration of poisoning public perception of the tyrannical regime

    Read more: http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/bernie-sanders-is-a-communist-sympathizer/#ixzz4VyVG5RgP
    Follow us: @TheLibRepublic on TwitterSanders called Sandinista leader Daniel Ortega “an impressive guy,” with “deep convictions.” He then accused the Reagan administration of poisoning public perception of the tyrannical regime.

    Read more: http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/bernie-sanders-is-a-communist-sympathizer/#ixzz4VyVYozyK
    Follow us: @TheLibRepublic on Twitter
     
  7. james M

    james M Banned

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  8. james M

    james M Banned

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    this is false! Modern socialists have learned that they are far too stupid to own and manage industry so now they seek to control industry as, for example, Obamacare does. They would apply the principles of Obamacare to the entire economy if given the chance.

    so·cial·ism/ˈsōSHəˌlizəm/
    noun
    1. a political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

    you have to keep up with the times!!
     
  9. james M

    james M Banned

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    And Europe has long had what even Krugman calls Eurosclerous. They have 67% of our standard of living and would have far less 30-40% if not for our inventions. They invent nothing compared to USA. We have 70% of all recent medical patents. We gave them their health care! Europe has same population and 10% of the inventions. France has the per capita income of Arkansas, about our poorest state. Europe is little more than an Old World theme park living off tourism.
     
  10. james M

    james M Banned

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    went wrong? We believe in freedom from govt.It is what made us great enough to save Europe through 2 world wars and recreate it and Japan in our image. The lower the taxes the more freedom from liberal govt we have and secondarily the less money wasted by govt and the more invested by the private sector for growth and jobs and higher wages!!
     
  11. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So what?!? Your political instincts are determined by where people took holidays?

    Absurd ...
     
  12. james M

    james M Banned

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    You saidthere were no communists and I gave you website for American Communist Party
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2017
  13. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Borrriinnnggggggggggg !

    Moving right along ...
     
  14. james M

    james M Banned

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    You learned that there were many Communists in America even including a communist party so why would you find that boring what you really mean is embarrassing.
     
  15. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Because it is IRRELEVANT.

    About as relevant as any party of a political nature regardless of its "essence". (Only violence can be a criteria for negating a political party.)

    The Communist Party has a checkered history in America. Some of it bad (supposedly proposing violent overthrow of the government), some of it good (organizing black-labor in southern states).

    The party claims 2 to 3 thousand members nationwide. It's decline came along with that of union-membership in general and accelerated with the demise of the party in Russia.

    Anything else on your (alleged) mind regarding America's "Commies" ... ?
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2017
  16. james M

    james M Banned

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    You said that there were no communist anywhere in the world except north of the 38th parallel in Korea. Now that it turns out you were wrong and there are in fact communistand would be communist all over America you say it's irrelevant How much sense does that make? Do you have any idea what percentage of the Italian electorate is communist?

    More importantly our founders based our Constitution on preventing the progression towards tyranny that we see in Jimmy Carter Hillary Clinton Barack Obama Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warrenwanting always bigger government no matter how big the government has just gotten.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2017
  17. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I never said that. I meant the only country run by Communists today is North Korea.

    Yes, there are more Communists in Europe than in the US. Given the manner in which they were treated stateside (during the McCarthy Era) that fact should be no wonder. The European communist parties are in the minority throughout the EU - largely because the EU has tackled its Income Disparity problem much better than has the US where 14% of the population is incarcerate below the Poverty Threshold. (That's more than 40 million men, women and children.)

    Moving right along ...
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2017
  18. james M

    james M Banned

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    1) yes Liberals were treated I mean Communists were treated very badly here perhaps because they were spying for Stahelin and giving him the bomb at the time he was slowly starving to death 60 million souls. Whoops liberals got that one a little wrong.

    2) income disparity in America is caused by liberal taxes liberal unions liberal budget deficits and liberal regulations that drove 40,000,000 jobs offshore not to mention millions of illegals who have taken the remaining jobs And driven down the wages for those jobs

    3)The idea that people would turn to liberalism or communism to solve the disparity problem is absurd given that their policies cause them. Notice that has obsene liberalism has grown in America so has disparity The liberal solution of course is to double down and blindly assume that even more aggressive liberalism or communism will solve the problem .this is exactly what Stalin and Mao and Pol Pot did and what we see them doing now in Venezuelan . Government is never big enough for a liberal progressive socialist fascist communist monarch dictator authoritarian Cesar, All Of these were made illegal by our genius founders Who knew that freedom from all rationales for big liberal government was the solution to human history
    and indeed they were right which is why became the greatest country in the history of the world saving the world through two world wars, re-creating it in its image, and policing it thereafter.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2017
  19. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Cold War is over ... you haven't noticed?

    Communism like Socialism was wrong because of one key element. Both assumed that the government owned the nation's means of production.

    We are way beyond that point in terms of a Social Democracy in Europe, where the ownership of the means of production is personal.

    Your definition above regarding Income Disparity is laughable.

    Historically you are dead-wrong. The off-shore jobs went to China quite simply due to lower costs that translated directly into lower consumer prices of their products on American retailer shelves.

    And, of course, all consumers like a "bargain". Little did they know they were only harming their own jobs.

    What goes around, comes around ...
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2017
  20. james M

    james M Banned

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    Not at all, from Plato and Aristotle to today the issue is magical big liberal govt versus freedom. The war continues under different names perhaps until liberalism is vanquished and freedom reigns.
     
  21. james M

    james M Banned

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    you mean they assumed that govt should own the means of production, rather than private sector, because big hearted monopolist genius bureaucrats could manage it better?
     
    Baff likes this.
  22. james M

    james M Banned

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    you have learned 64 times now that modern socialists have learned they are far too stupid to own and manage privates companies so instead they seek total control through taxes and regulations. CapnTrade and Obamacare are good examples for you to learn about. Remember, no matter how much control the liberal has gained he always seeks more until tyranny is achieved.

    Thomas Jefferson:
    Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2017
  23. james M

    james M Banned

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    wrong of course! China developed an advantage with cheap labor sure but we had the huge market they had to ship to, we had the great infrastructure, the educated population, the domestic business experience etc. But, when liberal govt gave Chinese companies a huge further advantage by taxing our corporations at highest rate in world, encouraging unions, threatening huge new regulations, running huge budget deficits and making idiotic trade deals we lost millions of good jobs offshore.
     
  24. james M

    james M Banned

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    some consumers were harming themselves and some were not. A govt in a free country cant step in to prevent some consumers from shopping for a low price to improve their standard of living as they see fit.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2017
  25. Drago

    Drago Well-Known Member

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    There is an element of both socialism and capitalism can coexist and make a better a system. I agree with that, but like capitalism going too far to the greed side, socialism has gone complete loon. It's now a battle of those who believe in sovereignty and the saving of cultures vs those who want open borders, free everything, and refugees that have no place to go. You can't do that and ever expect socialism to succeed. Europe is going to be over run by muslims, refugees feeding off the system and the culture will be lost. This is what we Trumpers want no part of in the US. We love our culture, our country and all the flaws that go with it.
     

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