The Ultimate Answer to Life, the Universe, and Everything

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by usfan, Nov 25, 2015.

  1. usfan

    usfan Banned

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    Good post. It SHOULD be a reminder to take ourselves less seriously.. to admit that we are not at the end all of knowledge, but are still babes in the woods, compared to all we do NOT know. But man has always been arrogant, & especially those with power & position to protect. Every generation feels they are the 'really smart ones', & everyone before them were dull hillbillies, with backward thinking processes. Circumspection is needed, but is in very short supply, in our knowledge base institutions.
     
  2. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    It depends on one's focus. Some see only what they want to see and have no interest in seeing anything different.

    You mean the witch, goblin, ghost?

    If odd duck is something wrong, well!
     
  3. usfan

    usfan Banned

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    I don't see these things as evidence that knowledge is unknowable. I see them as mere optical illusions, that trick our eyes with visual devices. The reality of what these are is still an objective reality, it is only our perception of them that is befuddled.

    In the same way, Objective Reality is there, whether we see it, or perceive it, or not. I believe it is possible to KNOW objective reality, and not just an illusion. Matter is real, the laws of the universe are consistent, & objective, empirical knowledge can be known & counted on for predictive processes & technological advances. History is proof of that. You reading this text is evidence that empiricism is real, & can be counted on to repeat natural laws in the universe consistently, & not just as an illusion.

    Abstract concepts, like we are discussing here, can be debated & pondered, & matters of eternity & infinity stir our minds & souls. Far from being an illusion, life is real. We are real. We think, therefore we are.

    Sure, we can be fooled. Indoctrination is real, & i would say that everyone has been indoctrinated in some form. But the fact that we can be wrong or deceived does not mean that we are always wrong or deceived. Some things we know are objective, empirical truth. We experience it, & depend on it. I could not sit in my chair were it not for simple laws of physics. I could not type on the computer. I could not reason with other people sprawled over the world.

    So misperceptions are real, as are deceptions, but that does not compel a conclusion that ALL of our knowledge base are either of those. There is a methodology for discovery that can sift out the chaff of mis & dis perceptions.. we have called it the scientific method.. it has been a boon for humanity for several hundred years. It is not as popular now, as we have entered a New Age, abandoning the age of reason, & rushing headlong into the Age of Madness. But that is another subject. :D
     
  4. Johnny Brady

    Johnny Brady New Member

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    Whoa mate, can you please define "reality" for us? I sure as heck can't, and neither can scientists..:)
    "The [quantum] atoms or elementary particles themselves are not real; they form a world of potentialities or possibilities rather than one of things or facts"- Prof. Werner Heisenberg (Nobel Prize winner in Physics)

    For example the famous 'Double Slit Experiment' has had them scratching their heads for years because the photons change their behaviour when detectors are put in place to observe them, as if they know they're being watched, almost as if "reality" is throwing up a barrier that we can't penetrate.
    "If you can explain this using common sense and logic, do let me know, because there is a Nobel Prize for you."- Jim Al-Khalili OBE, Professor of Theoretical Physics

    [video=youtube;ayvbKafw2g0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayvbKafw2g0&t=5s[/video]
     
  5. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    LOL!!!

    HELL'S KITCHEN IS ON TV RIGHT NOW!! LOL!!!!

    And your right....SEND IT BACK!! LOL!!!


    As far as determining if there is a Multiverse well this is my field so I can tell you that such things as the Double Slit Experiment show us a Multiverse Exists as well as this....

    D-Wave is a company that developed a Quantum Computer and they are selling them commercially as Google bought one as well the U.S. Military is using 1000 Quibit Quantum Computers and is waiting on a 10,000 Quibit Quantum Computer.

    But here is the thing.....D-Wave built ten 100 Quibit Quantum Processors and after it ran it's experiments with them it set up one more big experiment.

    Quantum Computers cannot be built with any observation done by humans or anything else sentient.

    They are built ROBOTIC ALLY and D-Wave digitally videoed their robotic construction but none one was allowed to view the video.

    After 3 years when D-Wave was done with the 100 Quibit Quantum Processors they turned 3 of the ten on and had then start running a programmed task.

    Then they took out the video of the robotic construction of the first 3 and in a control booth a few of D-Waves employees watched the video.

    The moment they OBSERVED the construction of the quantum processors inner working of each quantum processors being observed on video IMMEDIATELY STOPPED PROPER FUNCTION IN REAL TIME!!!

    Thus even though those quantum processors were built 3 years ago and even though they were watching their robotic construction 3 years later on digital video....the MOMENT they observed this the quantum processor STOPPED PROPER FUNCTION!!

    Then they took a HOUSE FLY.....put it in a clear plastic cup and taped it to a computer screen that would run the video.

    They left the control room and set the video to start on a timer and when it started the only living thing that observed that video was the fly and what happened was THE NEXT THREE D-WAVE QUANTUM COMPUTERS STOPPED PROPER FUNCTION IMMEDIATELY UPON THE FLYS OBSERVATION!!

    If anyone want's to ask me more about this go ahead or ask in a PM.

    AA
     
  6. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    It is my field as well. The double-slit experiment might be explained by a multiverse but it is far from definitive. It isn't even direct evidence.

    Most physicists do not accept the Many Worlds Hypothesis or any general multiverse hypothesis.

    As it so happens, I do tend to accept it. But I've always been a renegade. I tend towards an infinite number of universes boiling up out of the quantum foam BECAUSE it is the only explanation we have to explain the physical constants - how they ended up being finely tuned so we can exist. Given enough universes, perhaps an infinite number of them, this will happen from time to time. We have no other explanation for this; not even a guess.
     
  7. DarkDaimon

    DarkDaimon Well-Known Member

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    You can always look at the code behind the picture, discover the image is a jpeg and after a quick Google search, discover that jpegs don't have animations. That way you don't have to take anyone's word for it, you would actually know if it is moving or not.
     
  8. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    The Many Worlds Model is not the same thing as the Multiversal Model I helped develop at a world renown higher learning institute in Massachusetts.

    Many Worlds is too limited and is NOT an Infinite System.

    The Multiversal Model I developed has Many Worlds as just ONE aspect of infinite aspects within it.

    Many Worlds is predicated upon ONE Baseline Universal Reality Grouping.

    The Multiversal Model has INFINITE numbers of Baseline Universal Reality Groupings or Infinite Many Worlds.....as each baseline universal reality grouping has it's own singular set of natural physical laws and in our case space-time dimentionality.

    There MUST exist INFINITE Baseline Universal Reality Groupings each having their own set of natural physical laws.

    Mathematically this can be shown as in all of human history NEVER has the math shown something to exist and then later it was discovered it did not.

    AA
     
  9. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    Note that I added to my post above. And no matter your background, it is not an accepted theory. In fact it isn't even a theory. It is a hypothesis.
     
  10. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    It doesn't matter if it is accepted or not the only thing that matters is we have real world practical applications that show it must exist.

    A Quantum Computer only works because it must work with every single existing version of itself in all divergent universal states of reality.

    It calculates every single possible variant before getting an answer.

    Thus to calculate 345 x 798......it will calculate 1x1....1x2...1 x3...etc....also....1x1....2x1...3x1....etc.

    It will calculate every single possible calculated combination SIMULTANEOUSLY until it accesses the specific 3 digit x 3 digit calculation that brings an answer.

    And it does this working in conjunction with all versions of itself existing in divergent universal states of reality.

    This is why when the inner workings of a quantum computer are observed it ceased functioning in a quantum manner and will no longer function that way ever again!!

    AA

    - - - Updated - - -

    As far as the physical constants fine tuning in any infinite system all possibilities MUST exist as well it is well known in certain circles that Human Beings are NOT the only space faring race in this Universe or Galaxy for that matter.

    Life is PERVASIVE!!

    AA
     
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  11. Johnny Brady

    Johnny Brady New Member

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    This subforum is called 'Religion and Philosophy' but I'm going to suggest to the mods that they create two separate subforums instead, one called 'Religion' and the other called 'Philosophy', because the two don't always mix well.
    Meanwhile here are some bible verses about "reality" as food for thought-

    Jesus said- "You hardly believe me when I tell you earthly things, so how would you believe me if I told you heavenly things?....I know where I came from and where I am going, but you have no idea where I come from or where I am going.....you are of this world, I am not of this world" (John 3:12,John 10:38,8:14,8:23)
     
  12. usfan

    usfan Banned

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    I don't really see much difference.. both are ponderings, beliefs, or speculations about the Nature of the Universe. I would also include the 'science' subforum in this category, too, as most of the 'reasonings' there are religious in their tone & unscientific in their prognostications.

    Very few people, from my observation, can differentiate between facts & beliefs.. some have those things so blended they believe they are the same. But the reason for that is a cultural trend away from empiricism.. we have been running from science, reason, & empiricism, & rushing headlong toward madness & folly. Facts & beliefs are blended & equated.
     
  13. Johnny Brady

    Johnny Brady New Member

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    Hmm..but Religion and Philosophy are such deep subjects that they each deserve a subforum of their own so they don't clutter each other up..:)
    For example here's a great philosophical anecdote I once heard, I think it was a Readers Digest end of article 'filler'-
    A philosophy tutor held up a pencil to his class and said "I want you to write an essay about this pencil and I'll judge which I like the most."
    The winner was a student whose essay consisted of just two words- "What pencil?"
    Great stuff..:)
     
  14. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    Actually religion and philosophy really are not deep at all.

    Both are subjective.....both deal with TRUTHS not FACTS.

    And everyone has their own versions of both.

    AA
     
  15. William Rea

    William Rea Well-Known Member

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    Actual truth is not subjective.

    There is a truth regardless of our knowledge of it and our knowledge, or lack of, does not change it.

    What we decide to pronounce as truth is actually our best approximation to reality.
     
  16. William Rea

    William Rea Well-Known Member

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    On this we agree although, you will find that religion creeps into many philosophical disucssions.

    The best split I have seen is where 'Religion' is set up purely to discuss the subject from a believers point of view and 'Philosophy' is set up to discuss from a skeptics point of view, free from proselytising.
     
  17. William Rea

    William Rea Well-Known Member

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    Nice try. The distinction you are making is between justified belief and faith, they are not synonymous. Science is justified belief with a minimal amount of assumptions. Religion is faith based upon unjustified assumptions. When science asserts something and you doubt it you can go and check the facts to justify your belief that it is correct, when religion asserts something and you doubt it then you just don't have enough faith.
     
  18. usfan

    usfan Banned

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    Broad brushes do not paint good detail.

    You have to specify what 'scientific facts' you are talking about. You cannot just label one, 'science,' & the other 'religion'. that is merely an circular argument.. or one by definition.

    The issue here is the nature of the universe. Specifically, HOW did it come to be? There is NO evidence of anything for such a 'cause'. A belief in a natural cause, or a belief in a supernatural cause are both that: Beliefs.

    IOW, you have no 'justified belief' for your opinion, whether it be natural or supernatural.

    I will agree about science. It is a method of discovery, & we have learned a lot about the material world by employing sound methodology. But to imply that 'science' has the answer for origins is absurd. It is false, as science has no comment on anything relating to origins. Any beliefs about origins are from inferred conclusions, based on circumstantial evidence. We are here. That we know, or at least believe. But the HOW remains a cosmic mystery, that science cannot address. So the attempt to hijack 'Science!' as a justification for a naturalistic belief is flawed. It is an attempt to correlate the law of gravity, or some other observable phenomenon of physics to origins. It is merely sleight of hand, or a bait & switch tactic, where a false correlation is made.

    Science can assert a great many things, which can be verified by good methodology. But religious or philosophical OPINIONS are beyond the scope of science, & many pseudo scientists merely try to bluff their way, equating THEIR beliefs as somehow having the stamp of 'Science!', when there is absolutely NO science there. They merely have dogmatic statements of faith. There is no science to back their claim.

    The problem is not science. Science is good & useful as a method of discovery. The problem is in equating statements of belief AS science, when it is not.
     
  19. usfan

    usfan Banned

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    These back to back posts illustrate the different beliefs about the universe. One is a relativity based view, that knowledge depends on the variables of thought, time, location, and perhaps other factors. The other is a belief in an empirical reality.. that of an objective Truth that is true, whether we know it or not.

    This has been a philosophical debate for millennia. I have seen a trend in our culture, from a more empirical view, to a relative one, over the last 60 yrs or so. IMO, 'empiricism' reached its peak post WW2.. technology was doing wonderful things.. people could fly, float over the ocean, rocket to the moon, grow abundance of food, & seemed to provide magical power to make life easy for everyone. Science, engineering, & technology were the new gods of America, & everyone rejoiced & worshipped at the altar of Science. But this new god began to change, as they often do. The priests of this religion began to declare Truth from expertise, rather than proven methodology. Science was manipulated, as priests often do, to say things it would never have said before, in the new realm of relativity. Objective empiricism was giving way to relative, imperial rule, where the elite mandated the beliefs, & stamped them all with the validation of 'Science!' The devoted true believers nodded like bobbleheads, & bowed to the expertise of the New Priests of Science. Critical thinking was set aside, & Discovery was replaced with Conformity.
     
  20. Marcus Moon

    Marcus Moon New Member

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    I do agree that Adams novel is full of self-deprecating humor, and I might even go so far as to name it the most comprehensive satire ever written in English. Even so, I think he often hides much deeper and more complex ideas than the repeated observation that humans are less intelligent than we think.

    I disagree with your rather nihilistic interpretation The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. I think that Adams is pointing out that not only are we getting useless answers, but also that we do not even know the right questions to ask. That is why 42 seems like such an absurd answer.

    In the novel, Douglas Adams goes on to create the metaphorical supercomputer called Earth. In fact, finding the question is the entire point of life on earth. The implication of this is that the purpose of existence is not to find answers, but rather to find the right questions, that wondering is more important than finding out.

    Adams' analogy even goes so far as to stipulate that finding the right answer is much simpler than finding the right question, and that one does not even need to know the correct question to do so. (Deep Thought does not know the question, but finds the answer, anyway.)

    I do not understand why you left Epistemology out of your list. The question "What is truth?" is arguably critical to all philosophy, simply as a tool to determine the answers.

    I am also amazed at how rarely aesthetics is included in these lists. If questions about morality boil down to "What is virtue?" then questions of aesthetics boil down to "What is beauty?"

    Despite the tendency to leave it out of such lists, I would suggest that aesthetics is actually the most compelling, possibly even the preeminent field of philosophy simply by being implicit in our senses, imaginations, and desires. Any time we feel pleasure or pain, or any sensation of any kind, aesthetics is relevant.

    In philosophy, when we conclude that an argument is elegant, or a solution or statement is beautifully phrased, we are in the realm of aesthetics.
     
  21. Marcus Moon

    Marcus Moon New Member

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    The following unscientific observation is based only on anecdotal evidence and a disdain for both the stereotypical millennials and leftists.

    I do not think science changed because the people began to declare Truth from expertise. I think the concept of knowledge changed because most people who benefit from the bounty of science have become too lazy and complacent to do actual science. They chose imagining and feeling instead of actually bothering to do the hard work of thinking about evidence.

    I think the preference for nebulous and unproven Truth over specific and demonstrable facts is part of the Snowflake Effect. People opt to believe their mistakes are actually correct understandings of alternate truths rather than accepting that they are wrong and may actually be stupid, which would hurt their self-esteem (which in most cases is higher than it ought to be.)
     
  22. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    Your TRUTH is much different from mine thus truth is subjective in the extreme!!!

    A FACT....is REALITY!!

    AA
     
  23. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    Critical Thinking cannot use TRUTHS!!

    There is many truths...but only ONE REALITY!!!

    Well....at least only one reality in our Divergent Universal State of Reality as within the Multiverse all realities must exist as this is something that defines and Infinite System.

    Our Universe is NOT INFINITE.

    However the Multiverse is.

    AA
     
  24. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    Einstein says otherwise.

    Now I know there's a problem here.
     
  25. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    Really?

    And what did he say?

    AA
     

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