The Worgl Austria Great Depression Experiment and a real estate boom in rural America?

Discussion in 'Economics & Trade' started by DennisTate, Aug 4, 2020.

  1. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    My belief is that we must turn local governments loose to do variations of the Worgl, Austria local money experiment again.

    This can lead to a method of connecting people with their neighbours in each local area which can play a huge role in a boom in real estate prices in rural America and Canada.

    Could a real estate boom plus better Fed policy pay off USA national debt?


    I believe that the economic aspect of this COVID 19 crisis is so serious that we need to resort to drastic measures to prevent the USA and Canadian economies from falling into another 1929.

    I personally think that the most logical organizations to inspire to do part of this are
    1. local municipal governments
    2. churches
    3. charitable organizations that are already attempting to help the poor such as Food Banks


    Large churches in democratic nations should print their own currencies.


    http://www.whatcomwatch.org/php/WW_open.php?id=717

     
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  2. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

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    I don't see how local currency helps real estate prices if national banks don't take local currencies. COVID is probably going to create an uptick in demand for rural housing before it is over though.
     
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  3. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    People who have lived most of their lives in the cities may decide to move to rural America and Canada for quite a number of reasons but a sense of community will be one of them. Getting out of areas prone to riots will be another obvious reason.


    https://www.facebook.com/CalgaryDollars


    [​IMG]

    I live in rural Nova Scotia and as of today there are

    https://novascotia.ca/news/release/?id=20200731002

    Earning and spending a thousand Calgary Dollars each month (or the equivalent in Ithaca Hours), can save you a thousand dollars Canadian or a thousand dollars US which can have a significant impact on your monthly expenses.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2020
  4. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

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    But that is no different than with regular currency and it still goes back to how fungible it is. I am not saying that I think it is a horrible idea. I am just not sure it is going to significantly change things.
     
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  5. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Donor

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    I don't believe in MMT. That is, I believe money is really more of just a representation of wealth, rather than it being possible to work any magic just by shuffling around paper.

    However, a local currency could help encourage regional self-sufficiency, which could help counteract the effects of absentee ownership.

    That is, if a local economy is poor, they may be better off buying from themselves rather than buying from outside, even if the outside supplier is cheaper.
    Some of you economists will wail "That's not possible! What about Comparative Advantage?" but I've explained in the past (repeatedly in multiple threads, so I'm not going to bother doing it again here) how that can still be true. (It's when the "comparative advantage" happens to be capital)

    I also wonder whether those people in Worgl might have been creating their own currency to try to escape paying taxation, which would have given them an unfair economic advantage. (Or maybe the Austrian government was paying for things through inflation, so the town would have had an advantage of using money that was not inflating)
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2020
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  6. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Donor

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    I don't see how currency shortages would be a problem, at least not one that a new currency could solve.
    If the supply of currency goes down, prices also go down in proportion.


    It's an interesting idea, an interesting experiment, and a very interesting economic scenario to think about, but I just don't see how it would be helpful, other than for those reasons already mentioned.

    Maybe it had a psychological effect of making people in the town more likely to trade with each other since what they were trading wasn't "real money", the real money that they desperately needed.
    When people get very fearful, they can stop spending. (Even though logically that decrease in spending should be accompanied by a corresponding decrease in labor prices, that's not always what happens)

    I highly doubt the town of Worgl converted entirely to the new currency, it was mostly used on the side.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2020
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  7. Denizen

    Denizen Well-Known Member

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    Evidently the 'local currency' was used for smoking materials. The economy was still in a depression but the people were laughing.
     
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  8. Quadhole

    Quadhole Well-Known Member

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    Oh Brother...
     
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  9. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So then why did the people who created Derivatives feel that by the year 2014 they needed to have SEVEN HUNDRED AND TEN TRILLION OF THEM and two hundred and ten trillion of them in the USA Derivatives markets alone?


    FORGET IRAN, IRAQ, UKRAINE
    THIS IS WHERE WWIII STARTS...
     
  10. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes.... I do suspect that the Mormons could pull off an economic miracle and pay off the national debt of the USA even before January 1, 2022...... or surely at least before January 1, 2023?!

    And yes... all of this could be founded on top of a theoretical boom in real estate prices in rural USA!

    Did you know that Latter day Saints donated the set / stage for the second season of The Chosen?


    Note.... the State of Utah and or The sixteen million strong Latter day Saint community have reached what I tend to think of as "Economic Critical Mass!"
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2021
  11. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Donor

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    I've already explained to you in another thread how that's not possible. And even if they could do it, I highly doubt that they would do it.

    No one is going to pay off the government's debt when they don't show any sign of stopping and they keep getting into ever greater levels of debt.

    Would you pay off a niece's credit card when you knew she had a shopping addiction and was just going to head to a high price fashion store and rack up huge charges on her card again right after you paid it off?
     
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  12. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That is a good point.....
    but I do have reason to believe that something strange is happening in government and some shockingly ethical acts will take place over the next ten years.

    In 2014 CIA economist Jim Rickards gave the figure for the worldwide Derivatives markets as seven hundred and ten trillion dollars.

    He gave the value of the USA Derivatives markets at that same time as being two hundred and ten trillion USA petro- dollars.

    The Derivatives Markets are merely one part of the massive INSURANCE industry so.....
    paying off the national debt could become a goal that voters would want.... and when they do.....
    it would actually be rather simple to explain.

    Here is how I think it should be sold to the political right....

    Would a Basic Minimum Income dramatically reduce abortions?




    ?
    Will a Minimum Basic Income dramatically reduce the incidence of abortions?

    1. Perhaps by 1- 10 percent over the present rate.
      4 vote(s)
      50.0%

    2. Perhaps by 11 to twenty percent over the present rate.
      0 vote(s)
      0.0%

    3. Perhaps twenty one to thirty percent over the present rate.
      1 vote(s)
      12.5%
    4. *
      Perhaps by even more than by thirty percent?
      3 vote(s)
      37.5%
    Change Your Vote






     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2021
  13. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Donor

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    Dennis Tate, you seem to be going off on some whacky more extreme tangents, that I think undermine the original argument you are trying to make.

    You might want to try to have more focus in your threads, if you want them to be effective.

    Right now you seem to be throwing together multiple big and controversial ideas, and that can be hard to discuss when you throw so many of them in the same discussion.

    Let's see, so far you've thrown together the Worgl experiment and what it show us about economics, bringing up the notion of a real estate boom being able to pay off the national debt (and I don't even see how that directly relates to the Worgl experiment), bringing up the Covid crisis as some sort of imperative to do something, then bringing up the idea of churches printing their own money (which is related to the Worgl experiment, but that's a big jumping off point into another deep topic), specifically focusing on the Mormon church printing their own money and suggesting that it could solve the national debt, then the issue of derivitives, and then just for good measure you throw in the idea of universal income, and on top of that how it could allegedly reduce abortions, and whether that could be a selling point.

    All these different topics don't seem very related to each other, or seem only tangentially related.

    Each of these would be pretty deep topics, and each one is going to take a lot of convincing. You're trying to connect the dots between desperate issues, but each of those dots is really "iffy" and sound pretty whacky, and on the surface don't appear common sense or obviously reasonable. To say it another way, it almost seems like you are trying to reach too far.

    I don't think you realize this. Most people here are probably just going to ignore you. If you are not aware of that, this is why.

    You are bringing up so many things in this thread, there is far too much to discuss, and you are on shaky ground with each of those things. Normally people do not just casually bring up so many things in an argument that are so questionable or debatable. People usually stick to one controversial issue, and then the other issues they bring up are ones people can generally agree on.

    People are just going to ignore you, and apparently you don't see why.
    You go too far off topic too quickly. You took a whole page with that "Will a Minimum Basic Income dramatically reduce the incidence of abortions?"
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2021
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  14. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am writing to a tiny segment of the population who can understand what I am saying......
    but most will just think that I am off on a tangent.....
    or rather nutty.......
    but there are a few people who do understand the larger picture and once in a while
    I find another one of them.......

    Here is an example of somebody who I was able to learn a lot from.....


    http://www.politicalforum.com/index...is-a-good-thing.499686/page-9#post-1067298520


    Because of what I learned from Econ4Every1 I was able to notice something recently that I am sure I would not have noticed so easily ten years ago..... before I read many of his ideas:




    Housing prices and rents are soaring up


    Every one of these trends and ideas do all fit together......
    and I believe that within five years a significant percentage of the people in places of leadership will understand the how but this is a new idea.... a new way of thinking...... and it is challenging indeed.

    Thank you for continuing to look at this because all of this is founded on controversial ideas that I began to research in 1994 that truly stretch our imagination.

    In a way... Moses explained it better than just about anybody else has so far.

    "And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.
    And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do." (Genesis 11)

    But an important piece of the puzzle was added here.....


    Ecclesiastes 10:19
    "A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things. "


    Was Moses - Moshe a brilliant economist?




     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2021
  15. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Thank you for getting me thinking again about this again this morning .......
    I am guessing that this idea may be understood more fully in the nation of Israel FIRST.......
    and then it will go from Israel to the rest of the world........

    Israelis who want greater cooperation with the Islamic nations on a project like turning deserts green
    will likely be the ones who will catch onto how huge the potential really is.......




    After the Abraham Peace Accord turn deserts green...
    The heat waves that are happening right now will be pawned off as being a part of Global Warming but.......
    that is not entirely true because what is significantly happening is actually a significant decrease in the Global Dimming Effect due to the shutting down of the world economy over the past year and a half........

    Just as volcanic activity can set in motion cooling of the climate so also does the ash, soot and dust from industry......

    The implications of this though are profoundly politically incorrect.....

    Did President Bush respond brilliantly to Global Warming?

    The world will soon be forced to take another look at the ideas of New Mexico biologist and coach Carl Cantrell.......
    if we would actually like to use human technology in an attempt to assist somewhat in the stabilization of the climate.

     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2021
  16. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am of the impression that the BigBanking Elite were so scared of this experiment in economics that they used every trick in the book to defeat this experiment. They used the laws of Austria to defeat the original experiment in Worgl.

    I am of the belief that the national debts of the USA and Canada are significantly a practical joke played on thirty seven million Canadians and on three hundred and thirty million Americans by the eight thousand five hundred wealthiest people on earth as well as their one million to ten million most well paid C.E.O's, political leaders, Hollywood actors, bankers, economists, lawyers and sales people who pose as news anchors.. .but they are actually more like infomercial sales people.

    This practical joke can get pretty serious and some people can even die due to how rough certain people play.......
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2022
  17. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Donor

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    Well, you know what is interesting. If creating an alternative currency is so innocuous and ineffective, it is interesting that national governments often seem to spend so much effort trying to stamp out the alternative currency. I think they want to try to maintain total control over the currency, and thus have some additional measure of control over the economy.
     
  18. (original)late

    (original)late Banned

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    Worgl worked because of the collapse of the national economy.

    But it's not a long term solution. If you go back to the 1800s, in America, anyone could issue currency, and did. It was not a path to stability.

    Countries wound up creating national currencies because they had to.

    Let's assume American adopts Worgl. Who accepts all our debt? The answer is nobody. The result is instant disaster. Confidence is crucial to a currency, while there is confidence in the dollar, why would anyone have confidence in an economic process that just defaulted on trillions of debt?

    Instant Great Depression.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2022
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  19. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Thank you for this insightful comment but......
    the value of the U. S. Petro Dollar and / or the Canadian Dollar is ultimately backed up BY THE PRODUCTIVITY OF AMERICANS AND CANADIANS!
     
  20. (original)late

    (original)late Banned

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    Another vote for suicide.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2022
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  21. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Actually...... there is powerful evidence that the people capable of passing a script to Biden and Trudeau are
    philosophically neo-Malthusian....... and believe rather firmly in the need for DEPOPULATION which is very
    dangerous for the average Canadian and American.

    In order to produce hyper-inflation it is necessary not only to print a lot of extra money but it is also important that
    PRODUCTIVITY BE REDUCED.....and over these past two years that pattern has been followed by the governments
    of Canada and the USA as well as most supposedly democratic nations.

    The same people who have been passing Trudeau and Biden a script also gave a script to Mr. Bill Gates back before
    2010 that he obediently read for them in front of the cameras. Allowing Bill Gates such power over the governments and
    bureaucracies here in Canada and the USA is one of the most dangerous trends that I can imagine to continue with.




    Innovating to zero! | Bill Gates
    4,154,667 views
    Feb 20, 2010



    President Donald J. Trump for all of his many flaws was on a totally different page philosophically from the people
    who have been passing a script to Bill Gates, Biden and Trudeau and many others.


    After the Abraham Peace Accord turn deserts green...




    I am now living in a city in Ontario that is actually the perfect place to begin to shift Canadians away from
    what Bill Gates, Trudeau and Biden and others have been planning.


    http://www.politicalforum.com/index...better-canada-contest.589554/#post-1073395000
    Best Idea for a Better Canada Contest


     
  22. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I just got back an exceptionally insightful comment on a group where I posted part of this discussion.

     
  23. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    David Wilkerson went on about such visions for decades, and none of is ever came to be.
     
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  24. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Are you sure??????



    1973 Prophecy - The Vision by David Wilkerson
    1,105,021 views
    May 5, 2011


    Pastor Art Pawlowski in Calgary, Alberta can attest that persecution of Christian pastors is beginning, even here in Canada!




    For the record the Super Church that Pastor David Wilkerson predicted may have some massive advantages over any Christian church at this time..... and may have an understanding of a true but dangerous message that has been given through several near death experiencers.

    https://near-death.com/christian-andreason-nde/

    ....
    Personally... I believe that the Apostle Paul or whoever he spoke to who may have had a near death experience, (possibly Lazarus)...... may have known all of this but they also knew how difficult it was to explain these colossal truths, that in my opinion, Rabbi Nachman of Breslov dealt with brilliantly.

    https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/2co/12/1/s_1090001


    I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago,(whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught upto the third heaven.

    And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)

    How that he was caught up into paradise, and heardunspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2022
  25. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes. Where is this exodus to the country side? Its not happening, and neither did his other predictions.

    He was preaching universalism? Wow.

    He came a long way from his days of Nicky Cruz and his days preaching to street gangs in NYC.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2022
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