The world is a far more dangerous place

I don't believe that Russian bots and trolls sunk Hillary's campaign. Trump's historic dealings with Russia going back to the Trump Taj Mahal and Soho in the 80's and 90's eras are a whole different matter though

 

there is no such thing as a limited nuclear war. That being said, I agree that limited tactical use between a nuke power and a non-nuke power is a real possibility. But the second an adversary drops a nuke on a nuclear capable nation, the chain reaction begins and rapidly flies to its inevitable conclusion. MAD.

 

To show you how crazy and off the rails this is, if trump wanted to keep the treaty, and to try to address the alleged russian cheating, he would be accused of being Putin's puppet, in cahoots with putin to destroy america, and this is what the neocons would promote in the media, once again insuring sanity cannot never be used when it comes to russia an putin.

A helluva thing.

 

Russian interference CONTRIBUTED to her defeat, but she has to shoulder the bulk of the blame for running an "anointment" campaign instead of an election campaign.

The russians just placed their thumb on the scale. The extent to which will never be accurately determined due to its nature.

 

Or, he could confront them on the world stage and demonize their perfidy. Then he'd be lauded as standing up to Putin.

Instead he decided to give Putin what he wanted. Dissolution of the treaty. Now he can do whatever the hell he wants and not have to worry about America's reaction anymore. Sounds more like handing Putin another bigly win, than Trump being "tough on Russia".

 

Yes, I agree but unless it's a short war, which would have to involve nuclear, they'll not do well over the long term. I think they'll do what Russia did for generations, and is doing now, which is bluff and bluster, which I doubt will work against Trump just as it didn't work against Reagan. Both of us are speculating and your guess is just as good as mine, that's for sure.

 

To be bellicose towards russia would have been seen as utter stupidity, and not that long ago. What you want is a president that is dangerously irresponsible, IMO.

And yet this is where hatred and partisanship has led, into utter insanity, IMO. I guess I live a long time in a more sane world, and that is saying something huge. For the world has always been insane, unintelligent, even stupid, when it comes to some things. But the manner in which some want us to deal with russia is not typical, but quite the contrary. It is utterly irresponsible, a madness.

Created by hatred of trump, paranoia, and this hyper partisanship. Such a reality is self evident to many of us. I cannot see it any other way.

 

Mostly agree. I hate to say it but the media's obsession with Russia destroying America's democracy is getting nauseating though. I need a shower after sort of agreeing with a right-wing talking point but the inability of the Hillary camp to take responsibility for running a terrible campaign and the constant harping on Russia is not going to help them in 2020. They need to introduce solid policy proposals that act in the interests of the American people instead of political doners and corporations.

The Russians certainly favoured Trump because there is a history there going far back beyond the Trump Tower affair. I am not sure that Trump's real financial dealings with Russia will ever be widely known by the US public unless Mueller actually goes that far back in his report which I am in no way certain will happen. Trump's financial dealings with Russian oligarchs and mobsters are actually a pretty interesting study in criminality when you really research it.

Certainly the Russians put their thumbs and probably their feet on the scale, as well.

 

There is no way that Russia could stand up militarily to the US so the one card Putin has is the second largest nuclear arsenal in the world, right on Europe's doorstep where it could really do some damage due to interior lines.

That being said, I think Putin is genuine in wanting a new nuclear deal or at least talks that include other players like China and Pakistan. Trump may even like the idea but the warhead madmen in his administration who are calling the shots like Bolton and Pompeo are highly unlikely to agree to anything like cooperation with Putin on anything.

 

Putin was ignoring the treaty anyway and now Trump can act in American's best interests, which will certainly not be in Russia's interests. Now Trump, not only Putin, can also do whatever the hell he wants.

 

Trump appointed these 'warhead madmen' so they'll reflect his foreign policy strategies. The left has suffered a TKO in their phony Trump/Russia collusion but still can't arrive at that reality, still waving their fist in anger from their battered and bloodied body while being carted off to the dressing room.

 

Yes, the nothingburger theory.

There's more to it than that if you really understand what the Trump organization is all about and has been for decades. The question is will Mueller really expose all that or will he stick with the campaign collusion thing?

Trump has no understanding of foreign policy or geo-politics. The hawks in his own regime really lead him around by the nose and run their own foreign policy becuase Trump is mostly uninterested except perhaps where it involves Russia.

Most of his appointments were made to appease the most radical and reactionary factions in the Republican Christian War Industry establishment.

 

I want our plan to include china always in second place

 

There is no way anyone could induce the spineless euros to attack russia

 

Are you not an American?

 

I dont think china wants war with the US

What they do want is overwhelmining economic and military superioity that allows then to take whatever they want anywhere in the world without having to wage war for it

But mistakes do happen

Such as the Korean War in 1950

The communist bloc thought we would not fight for S Korea but we did

 

It's difficult to debate unless you include some facts among your feelings.

 

Despute anything I said with a counter argument you are able to support and we have a debate. It is difficult to debate you if you say nothing at all.

 

The World is a Far More Dangerous Place because the Democrats are purposely lying about their coup attempt to remove Trump and blaming the Russians on Hillary's big fat loss. Sanctions out of mid-air against a former cold war foe and WW1 and WW2 ally makes for uneasy times. We'd be a lot better off if the Democrat Party was extinct and relations with Russia improved.

 

The democrats are dangerously trying to enter a world war again, yes. But if the Democrats were extinct, it would go against our checks and balances. Though they are wrong on this side of history, they will eventually correct their ways. Much like they corrected themselves after they started the KKK.

 

What do you mean corrected? Yes they started the KKK but look at them now. They were a lot more reasonable during Klan times.

You can't compromise with socialists and communists.....they are now a useless party.

Independents can take their position for checks and balances.

 

Well, since my uncle fought in both WW2 and Korea and I know a bit about this, let me give my take.

At the end of WW2, the USA could not disarm fast enough. We dumped airplanes and a lot more off ships decks into the ocean. We abandoned property to other nations. We sold some to them too.

My uncle was in the SF Bay Area days prior to Korea breaking loose in war. Maybe he and dad discussed a possible war but I do not recall hearing it. We were riding in Dad's car in Oakland shortly prior to Gene going back to Japan.

North Korea was extremely well prepared for war. One has to believe that the defeated Japanese had abandoned all of their major arms and North Korea grabbed them.

But the Soviets had set up North Korea and they armed the North Koreans. Americans were tired of war and had headed out of South Korea. Actually South Korea was a sitting duck for north Korea.

So you had a major civil war.

My uncle was in Japan in time to be shipped to South Korea. And he was in the Army Engineers and was very well trained in explosives. We believe he and some men went to a bridge to blow it up and he was shot in a rice paddy at Taejon. My research shows this to be true.

Taejon is in the South end of South Korea and on a river. Finally we managed to get enough troops into the Pusan area and hold that end of South Korea and MacArthur made his landing at Inchon and squeezed the North Koreans like toothpaste and drove them to the Chinese border.

Truman lost the war. He had the right General there and then fired him.

 

That's right. But Trump has made it very difficult for them to go anywhere given the success of his policies and the leftist policies, like paid child leave, he announced during his STOU speech. I think the Democrats wjill be forced to go along with him unteil they get new blood, new ideas and new leadership. Your point that these checks and balances, including an honest opposing political party, are essential to any democracy is well taken and that was recognized by the Founders as well.

 

They call it the Forgotten War

A war that only kim il sung wanted

And certainly not china which had only won the civil war with the Nationalists a year before

But things are different now

China is an emerging power with dreams of world domination

 

I wouldn't bet on it - the United States of America has more form for illegally invading other countries, the most recent being Syria, and unless I'm mistaken the next will be Venezuela, than Russia does.