THEY let people died by posponing elective surgeries, especially those with serious med conditions

Discussion in 'Coronavirus (COVID-19) News' started by nopartisanbull, Mar 4, 2021.

  1. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    In this forum, there's a whole lot of posters who should stop criticising something they don't fully understand.

    Claim; ''THEY let people died by delaying/postposing elective surgeries, especially those with serious medical conditions''

    Question; Who's ''THEY''?

    For anyone' info, States/local governments, and medical administrators are the ones who have delayed/postponed elective surgeries to ensure hospitals had appropriate resources to treat COVID-19 cases, and MOST elective surgeries that were delayed/postponed were non-life threatening, such as a hip replacement.

    Now, here's an occurence where Republicans have long criticized, and deemed to be non-existent in the U.S;

    Headline; Utah hospitals have begun informal rationing of care, doctors say, as they cope with surge of Covid19 patients.

    https://www.sltrib.com/news/2020/11/22/utah-hospitals-have-begun/

    AND this article is self-explanatory;

    Utah ICUs now at 99.4% capacity, as state reports 2,408 new COVID cases and 8 deaths

    Dec 19, 2020

    Intensive care units at Utah hospitals have never been so slammed during the pandemic — with many of them beyond officially full — as the state reported another 2,408 cases of COVID-19 and eight more deaths Saturday.

    The percent of all occupied ICU beds statewide is now 99.4%, or 534 of 537 beds filled.

    At the 14 biggest hospitals that handle the most coronavirus cases, the rate of ICU beds now occupied is 104.1%, or 480 patients, which is beyond their official capacity of 461 beds.

    https://www.sltrib.com/news/health/2020/12/19/feds-apologize-shipping/

    ----------------------
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2021
  2. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    Now, for a better understanding, let's prioritize the following medical conditions;

    Patients requiring a surgery;

    a. Has a medical condition that is non-life threatening, thus, a surgery can be delayed/postponed
    b. Has a serious medical condition where a surgery can be delayed/postponed
    c. Has a serious medical condition where a surgery can't be delayed/postponed

    Covid19 patients

    a. Patients who only require evaluating, monitoring/caring
    b. Patients who require a ventilator because they are unable to breathe adequately on their own
    c. Patients who require a ventilator, and have to be admitted to an ICU due to an organ(s) failure/possible organ(s) failure
     
  3. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    There would be almost NO reason for people to argue if we took the time to fully understand things and appreciate that other people have a right to free speech as well. ;-)
     
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  4. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    Yesterday, Governor Greg Abbott lifted his mask mandate, and several Covid19 restrictions, thus, a huge win for the anti-maskers/personal freedom fighters.

    NOW, let's go back to the day Abbott ordered his mask mandate, and imposed several Covid19 restrictions.......

    Question to the average Joe's/Jane's in this forum;

    When Abbott ordered his mask mandate/imposed several Covid19 restrictions, were the anti-maskers/personal freedom fighters THE LEAST OF HIS CONCERNS?

    Yes/No, and why?

    Anticipated response from the below average intelligent people; The reason why Abott ordered a mask mandate, and imposed several restrictions is because he listened to his Covid advisors, and back then, most of them were liberals, thus, no wonder.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2021
  5. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    One response, 23 views.....let's continue

    In reference to Utah's rationing care, IMO, one of the hardest decisions doctors have to make is; Which patients should get the lifesaving treatment.

    However, based on what grounds?

    Anyone.......
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2021
  6. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

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    Probably patient age is one of the big considerations.....and insurance....then maybe overall prognosis for recovery which sort of loops back into age. Just a hunch.
     
  7. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    ty for posting.

    Definitely based on the patient's chance of recovery. Also, no doubt doctors do consult each other about which patients should get the lifesaving treatment.

    One cannot imagine what took place in Utah's overwhelmed hospitals, especially people who never worked in a hospital during a pandemic.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2021
  8. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for posting. Do you mind if I ask if you lost someone because of this?
     
  9. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    Covid19

    a. Immediate family; No
    b. Uncles/Aunts/Cousins; No
    c. Friends/acquaintances; approx. 10 died

    Died because elective surgery was delayed/postponed/re-scheduled

    a. No
    b. No
    c. No
     
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  10. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you. Your answer means a lot to me.
     
  11. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    Next.....

    What caused a huge backlog for NON-URGENT selective surgery, both non-life threatening, and serious medical conditions?

    Answer; Well, obviously, hospitals didn't have the resources, and the time to threat them.
     
  12. Mrs. SEAL

    Mrs. SEAL Well-Known Member

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    This hits home for me and hard! My mom had breast cancer, her chemotherapy got delayed due to Covid-19 and my mom ended up dying December 28. Her tumor when they finally got her in for her mastectomy was 15lbs in her breast, with 17 lymph nodes being cancerous. Her cancer was rapid growing and aggressive, they knew this and still delayed her scans and chemotherapy treatments for 2 months she went without treatment. While Covid is of great concern, so is cancer and other patients with critical conditions. It wasn't just elective surgeries, I lived this and the person I love most is now dead! I feel sorry for anyone who has been delayed treatment or surgeries.
     
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  13. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    I am so sorry for your loss.
     
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  14. Mrs. SEAL

    Mrs. SEAL Well-Known Member

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    Thank you very much
     
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  15. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    My deepest sympathies.....

    Two days ago, my cousin-in-law had two mastectomies, and she was diagnosed three weeks ago. Her family has a history of breast cancer.

    Thus, a serious medical condition where a surgery can't be delayed, and during a period where Covid19 daily cases/hospitalizations have significantly been reduced.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2021
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  16. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    Covi19 Hospitalization Fatality Rate, HFR

    We may have a low Case Fatality Rate, currently at 1.82%, however, HFR is significantly high

    Number of cumulative hospitalizations; 874,603
    https://ycharts.com/indicators/us_coronavirus_hospitalizations

    Number of Covid19 deaths; 533,850
    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

    Covid19 HFR, Mar 4th, 2021; 61% (533,850/874,603)

    Covid19 Hospitalization Survival Rate; 39%, and certainly a lower rate for patients with underlying conditions, and higher age groups.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2021
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  17. LoneStarGal

    LoneStarGal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    He publicized his plan to focus on 1) hospital capacity, and 2) percent positive test rates. When some areas were going over the set hospital capacities and the % positives were increasing, he started reducing occupancy allowances in public places and issued the mask mandate.

    Now hospitalizations are down and testing rates are stable, so he is lifting restrictions. If anything starts increasing again, particularly the number one priority of hospital capacity, he'll re-issue more restrictions.

    It's very rational, really. Initially, the entire purpose of any restrictions was to keep hospitals from getting completely crunched. That's what Texas has focused on.
     
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  18. LoneStarGal

    LoneStarGal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Fact check: TRUE
     
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  19. LoneStarGal

    LoneStarGal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't know anyone personally who has died of Covid, or even tested positive, but I know two people who each lost one relative.

    One friend lost a cousin who had many pre-existing risks to Covid.

    My boss lost a relative who died because her dentist closed down due to "Covid precautions" and the few working dentists were not accepting new patients during the shut down. She had a tooth ache, appointment cancelled for an "estimated 2-3 months". The tooth ache turned into an infected tooth. No appointments available. The infection spread to her brain and she died in the hospital of sepsis after a few months of pain.
     
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  20. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    Ironically, the two dead boys in this article had access to a dental centre, however, they couldn't afford the dental care.

    https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/tragic-results-when-dental-care-is-out-of-reach/

    In addition, did you ever create a thread about Americans dying because they can't afford the medical care?

    The Americans dying because they can't afford medical care ...
    More than 26 000 Americans die each year because of lack of ...
    Millions in U.S. Lost Someone Who Couldn't Afford Treatment
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2021
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  21. Mrs. SEAL

    Mrs. SEAL Well-Known Member

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    First, I am sorry about your cousin-in-law, that is absolutely terrible and am sorry for the pain she must be going through.

    You said a surgery CAN'T be delayed, but my mom's chemo and surgery was in fact delayed for two months due to Covid-19. I lived it with my mom. Her tumor was 15 lbs by the time she got help and it spread to her bones and brain. They flat out told her they pushed her treatment back due to Covid-19.
     
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  22. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    I would prefer to talk about the future instead of the past. Like when he has to shut everything down again because the Coronavirus starts spreading again, possibly even mutating. And, before everyone in the country gets the shot, which is still at least, a month or three away from happening.
     
  23. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    Fact check; I never said it was false.

    In reference to any topic, there are three types of people;

    1. People who don't care

    2. People who always complain/criticize

    3. People who try to understand rather than complain/criticize

    Thus, in reference to ''delaying/postponing/re-scheduling elective surgeries'', what type are you?
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2021
  24. LoneStarGal

    LoneStarGal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The type who doesn't distill people into a limited number of "types".
     
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  25. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    Once again, in reference to any topic, there are three types of people;

    1. People who don't care

    2. People who always complain/criticize

    3. People who try to understand rather than complain/criticize

    Example of people # 3; ME

    Fact; The State of Utah has one of the lowest number of Covid19 deaths per 1M pop in the U.S.; 614
    Fact; The State of Utah has one of the lowest Death Rate/Case Fatality Rate in the U.S.; 0.59%

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

    HOWEVER,

    Fact; The State of Utah has one of the highest Case Hospitalization Rate in the U.S.;

    Number of confirmed cases; 373,868
    Number of hospitalizations; 14,841
    Utah's Case Hospitalization Rate; 3.97% (14,841/373,868
    National Case Hospitalization Rate; 3.04%

    https://coronavirus.utah.gov/case-counts/
    https://ycharts.com/indicators/us_coronavirus_hospitalizations
    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

    ALSO,

    Fact; Most of Utah's Covid19 hospitalizations and deaths occurred between October and January......see graphs; .

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/utah/

    IN ADDITION,

    Fact; Number of ICU Beds per 10,000 people; Utah ranked 47th

    47. Utah
    > Total population: 3,161,105
    > Number of ICU beds per 10,000 people: 1.6 (total: 513)
    > Hospital beds per 10,000 people: 18.2 — 4th lowest (total: 5,766)
    > Adults at risk of severe illness from COVID-19: 30.0% — the lowest (total: 657,278)
    > Projected peak resource use date: 4/25/2020
    > Beds, ICUs, and ventilator needed on peak date: 329 beds, 66 ICUs, 56 ventilators
    > Confirmed COVID-19 cases as of 4/6/2020: 53.0 per 100,000 people — 22nd highest (total: 1,675)
    > Confirmed COVID-19 deaths as of 4/6/2020: 0.4 per 100,000 people — 6th lowest (total: 13)

    States With the Most and Least ICU Beds
    https://247wallst.com/special-report/2020/04/07/states-with-the-most-and-least-icu-beds/11/

    CONCLUSION; A very high Case Hospitalization Rate + a very low number of hospital beds per 10,000 population = Rationing health care
     

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