This latest TAX FOUNDATION data will sadden many ''record revenue'' believers

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by nopartisanbull, Jun 11, 2021.

  1. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    What the hell is going on?

    Well, everyone knows that Uncle Sam collect taxes on the wages and salaries earned by individuals, and his main source; ''Tax Withheld" and/or GROSS individual income tax receipts.

    AND soon after the tax filling season begins, the IRS is sending out BILLIONS in REFUNDS.

    QUESTION; After REFUNDS, what were the NET individual income tax receipts for calender year 2017 (Before Trump's tax cuts), and calender year 2018, (After Trump's tax cuts)?........GOTCHA!

    TAX FOUNDATION..........Summary of Federal Income Tax Data, Tax Year 2017

    • In 2017, 143.3 million taxpayers reported earning $10.9 trillion in adjusted gross income and paid $1.6 trillion in individual income taxes
    • The share of reported income earned by the top 1 percent of taxpayers rose to 21 percent, from 19.7 percent in 2016. Their share of federal individual income taxes rose to 38.5 percent, from to 37.3 percent in 2016
    Reported Income Increased and Taxes Paid Increased in 2017........BEFORE TRUMP'S TAX CUTS

    Taxpayers reported $10.9 trillion in adjusted gross income (AGI) on 143.3 million tax returns in 2017, the last tax year before the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act took effect. Total AGI grew $780 billion from 2016 levels, significantly more than the $14 billion increase from 2015 to 2016. There were 2.4 million more tax returns filed in 2017 than in 2016, and average AGI rose by $4,232 per return, or 5.8 percent.

    Taxes paid rose to $1.6 trillion for all taxpayers in 2017, an 11 percent increase from the previous year. The average individual income tax rate for all taxpayers rose from 14.2 percent to 14.6 percent.

    https://taxfoundation.org/summary-of-the-latest-federal-income-tax-data-2020-update/

    ----------------------

    TAX FOUNDATION..........Summary of Federal Income Tax Data, Tax Year 2018

    • In 2018, 144.3 million taxpayers reported earning $11.6 trillion in adjusted gross income (AGI) and paid $1.5 trillion in individual income taxes.
    • Tax year 2018 was the first under the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act (TCJA). The number of returns filed and the amount of income reported grew in 2018 yet average tax rates fell across every income group and total income taxes paid decreased by $65 billion
    Reported Income Increased While Taxes Paid Decreased in Tax Year 2018.......AFTER TRUMP'S TAX CUTS

    Taxpayers reported $11.6 trillion in adjusted gross income (AGI) on 144.3 million tax returns in 2018, the year the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act (TCJA) took effect. That is just over 1 million more returns filed than in 2017 and $627 billion more in AGI reported than in 2017. Average AGI rose by $3,806, or 5 percent.

    While the number of returns and amount of AGI rose, total income taxes paid fell by $65 billion. Altogether, taxpayers paid $1.5 trillion in income taxes in 2018, down about 4 percent from 2017. The average individual income tax rate for all taxpayers fell from 14.6 percent to 13.3 percent.

    https://taxfoundation.org/publications/latest-federal-income-tax-data/

    --------------------------

    ''While the number of returns and amount of AGI rose in 2018, total income taxes paid fell by $65 billion''

    ATTENTION, ''Record Revenue'', and ''The tax cuts have paid for themselves'' Believers

    Checkmate!

    Warning; Many Trump supporters will try to obfuscate the above-mentioned Conservative/Center-right TAX FOUNDATION info/data............I'll be waiting.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2021
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  2. roorooroo

    roorooroo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A step in the right direction. Now if we could just cut the federal budget....
     
  3. stratego

    stratego Well-Known Member

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    It doesn' matter whether record revenue was before or after the tax cut. What matters is that record revenue occurred under the Trump presidency.
     
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  4. 21Bronco

    21Bronco Banned

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    Yet, overall tax revenues still grew. Where did the difference come from? Did you look into that?
     
  5. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    ANALOGY;

    Over the last 12 month, my weight reached a record high of 212 pounds, however, after a whole lot of physical activities, I''m down to 198 pounds.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2021
  6. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    GROSS Individual Tax Receipts increased, HOWEVER, according to TAX FOUNDATION, Tax Year 2018 NET Individual Tax Receipts are lower than Tax Year 2017 NET Individual Tax Receipts.

    ANALOGY; Over the last 12 month, my weight reached a record high of 212 pounds, however, after a whole lot of physical activities, I''m down to 198 pounds.
     
  7. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    Cutting the federal budget, I AGREE

    For your info, I don't like Biden's ''Tax More, and Spend More'' proposed budget. I prefer a Tax More, and reduce the deficit.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2021
  8. 21Bronco

    21Bronco Banned

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    analogy to what?
     
  9. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    Well, folks got to keep more of their own money, and Federal receipts continued to climb, especially in 2019 before the China Flu took out the global economy.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2021
  10. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    Number of Returns, 2017 Tax Year; 143.3 Trillion
    Total Adjusted Gross Income; $10.1 Trillion
    Total Income tax paid; $1.601 Trillion

    Number of Returns, 2018 tax year; 144.3 Trillion
    Total Adjusted Gross Income; $11.6 Trillion
    Total Income tax paid; $1.536 Trillion

    TAX FOUNDATION; While the number of returns and amount of AGI rose in 2018, total income taxes paid fell by $65 billion.

    https://taxfoundation.org/publications/latest-federal-income-tax-data/
     
  11. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2021
  12. 21Bronco

    21Bronco Banned

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    Yes, but total revenues grew. I was wondering if you researched that.
     
  13. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What about the believers in "high taxes equals a better society"?
     
  14. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    I believe Clinton's top 2 tax rates should be reinstated, and that's it.

    Also, Clinton's top 2 top tax rates have remained on the books until 2001, thus, even after Republicans won a majority in 1995/97/99. In other words, additional revenues for both Clinton and Gingrich.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2021
  15. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And you believe that for what reason?
     
  16. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    That's good info. It's fiscal year which slices off the end of 2019.

    Here is similar info, using calendar years which gives us all of time period before the distortion of the pandemic. These originally were quarterly numbers so they are annualized.

    [​IMG]
    Federal receipts rose every year, especially the final year before the pandemic, even while folks were keeping more of their own hard earned income. What's not to like? In fact, that largely remains the economy we could be enjoying as the rest of the government imposed COVID restraints are loosed and it looks pretty damn good.
     
  17. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    So what?

    The purpose of American People isn't to provide revenue to the Federal Government, rather, the purpose of the Federal Government is to secure the rights of The American People: We even wrote this down when we formed the Federal Government just so that this always remained clear:

    We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.​

    Further, as you can plainly see, Federal Receipts grew every year. There is nothing magical about income taxes that makes the money more valuable that tariff income or lease payments on federal land or any of the other many money streams to the US Treasury. It's all paid in dollars and our dollars are legal tender for all obligations whether public or private.

    I've heard of "punitive Leftism" where the point was that they want hurt people, confiscate and various other pain inflictions, but I had assumed that was hyperbole. Are you really upset that Americans kept more of their own earnings even while the Treasury continued to take in more money? Why on earth would that bother you?

    [​IMG]
    U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis, Federal Government Current Receipts [NA000304Q], retrieved from FRED, Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis; https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/NA000304Q, June 11, 2021.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2021
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  18. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    Deficit/Surplus as Percent of Gross Domestic Product

    [​IMG]

    As a percent of GDP, Deficits during Trump's good economic times significantly increased BECAUSE Republicans wanted their biggest tax cuts in U.S. history to be financed by Uncle Sam's Credit Card

    RESULTS;

    2016; minus 3.11% of GDP
    2017; minus 3.40% of GDP
    2018; minus 3.78% of GDP
    2019; minus 4.59% of GDP

    AND IRONICALLY

    Deficits during Bush good economic times;

    2004; minus 3.37% of GDP
    2005; minus 2.44% of GDP
    2006; minus 1.79% of GDP
    2007; minus 1.11% of GDP

    Deficits/Surplus during Gingrish & Co. good economic times;

    1996; minus 1.30%
    1997; minus 0.25%
    1998; surplus +0.76% of GDP
    1999; surplus +1.30% of GDP
    2000; surplus + 2.30% of GDP

    Deficits during Clinton's good economic times;

    1992; minus 4.45%
    1993; minus 3.71%
    1994; minus 2.78%
    1995; minus 2.14%

    Deficit during Reagan's good economic times

    1985; minus 4.89%
    1986; minus 4.83%
    1987; minus 3.08%
    1998; minus 2.96%

    https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FYFSGDA188S
     
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  19. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    Fake News. Receipts to the US Treasury were HIGHER not lower, every year until COVID hit. Folks, we don't have a "we don't tax The People enough problem" we have a "Federal Government that spends way too much" problem.

    Further: This excessive spending issue actually extends to the Congressional budget writing staff who actually
    1. write the spending bills
    2. that Congress passes without reading
    3. the only word of which the president writes is his name when he signs the final legislation.
    You haven't yet clarified whether your goal is federal budget discipline and the preservation of our Freedom and Liberty or just a corrupt compulsion to charge The People more for the massive mediocrity that is today's Federal Government.
     
  20. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    TRIVIA

    Category; U.S. History

    Question # 1; Which U.S. President is known for increasing the Deficit during good economic times?

    Answer; Donald Trump?

    Correct!

    2016; minus 3.11% of GDP
    2017; minus 3.40% of GDP
    2018; minus 3.78% of GDP
    2019; minus 4.59% of GDP

    ------------------------------------

    Question #2; As a percent of GDP, which U.S. President had the highest non-recession Deficit?

    Answer; Donal Trump?

    Correct! Minus 4.59% of GDP, 2019

    [​IMG]
     
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  21. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    Quote: Receipts to the US Treasury were HIGHER not lower



    NOT according to OMB's 90 years old method of comparing today's and yesterday's Receipts as a percent of GDP

    OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET
    Historical Tables

    Table 1.2—Summary of Receipts, Outlays, and Surpluses or Deficits (-) as Percentages of GDP: 1930–2026

    Trump's good economic times Receipts as a percent of GDP

    FY2016; 17.6%
    FY2017; 17.2%......lower
    FY2018; 16.3%......lower
    FY2019; 16.3%......lower

    https://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/historical-tables/

    And all of the above will be refuted by Trump's supporters because they believe they are smarter than OMB's Directors
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2021
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  22. Phyxius

    Phyxius Well-Known Member

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    Start with cutting the military by half. Then cut one dollar of discretionary spending for every dollar of increased taxes. Put all Congress critters on the same pay scale as Texas State Legislators.
     
  23. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    So what? In dollar terms, the Treasury received more money each and every year, before COVID:

    [​IMG]
    The point of the American Economy is for We The People to exchange goods and services. You seem to think the point is to provide money to the treasury. It's not. We provide money to the treasury so that the treasury can disperse the funds for the purposes we agree on through our elected representatives. That spending power is measured in DOLLARS not in dollars per hundred of GDP.

    A dollar drawn at 16.3% of GDP has the same spending power as a dollar drawn at 17.6% of GDP. To summarize, if you have more dollars, you have more spending power, regardless of receipts as a percentage of GDP and the US Treasury had MORE dollars, every year of the Trump presidency until COVID.
    What I have stated is simply true, regardless of whether OMB agrees or not. It's not clear why you have introduced this red herring into the discussion. I know of no reason why OMB would disagree with what I stated given how obvious correct my points are.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2021
  24. Bullseye

    Bullseye Well-Known Member

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    I don’t recall anyone claiming the tax cuts, passed at the of 2017 would instantaneous cause floods of new revenue. In fact I recall through at least spring of 2018 IRS was still working on withholding tables for employers to use.
     
  25. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    Quote: Receipts to the US Treasury were HIGHER not lower

    Correction: In nominal terms, Receipts to the U.S. Treasury were higher not lower

    NOTE: A nominal term is an UNADJUSTED number of something such as wages, stock prices, assets, and interest rates and is generally described in fixed monetary terms.

    Example;

    Federal Minimum Wage

    Today's Record High; $7.25/hr
    Last Record High; $6.55/hr, 2008
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2021
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