To conservatives: what would it take to impeach?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Le Chef, Jan 26, 2020.

  1. Le Chef

    Le Chef Well-Known Member Donor

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    We who reject the idea that obstruction of congress, maladministration, and abuse of power are insufficient, even where proved, to impeach, should say what it would take to impeach.

    My thought is that (aside from the obvious treason and bribery) a case could and should be made against a president if and only if it were alleged and proved that public money made its way into his, his family's, or his cronies' pockets by dint of his decisions. Deriving a political advantage isn't nearly enough, and in this case, of course Trump derived zero advantage, political or otherwise, from the phone call with Ukraine. Not to mention that it is perfectly reasonable to ask what the hell young Biden was doing on that board of directors. (The answer to that is less ambiguous; he could only have been there to help with marketing concessions from the USA.)

    Short of that, it's best, as a matter of prudence, to make all this a political issue and carry it to the election. Which likely was Nancy's, Adam's and Jerry's plan all along. They knew they didn't have and couldn't get the votes all along. Maybe they never even wanted them. What they really want is no votes to bolster their claims of complicity in a coverup.

    BTW, just what was young Biden doing on the board? Has that ever been answered to your satisfaction? Should Don Trump Jr. be on the Burisma board? That wouldn't stink at all right?
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2020
  2. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Well-Known Member

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    Simple the Democrats have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Trump's intentions were to get information to use to win the 2020 election.

    Thus far there has been no evidence submitted that even addresses the issue.
     
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  3. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    Conservatives have put Trump on the Cross of Jesus. They can only see him as the innocent victim in all that he does. It’s weird.
     
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  4. LoneStarGal

    LoneStarGal Well-Known Member Donor

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    Charges of "high crimes and misdemeanors" should be at the same level of seriousness and severity as "treason or bribery". One would think that Presidential offenses worthy of impeachment and removal from office would by something that "clearly" threatens national security, or a series of errors which erodes the public faith and trust in the office holder.

    The best determinant of that would be public opinion, where at least a 50% majority of each political sector (Democrats, Republicans and Independents) agrees that the President has committed egregious errors and should be removed. One-side partisan impeachments are terrible for the country and should never happen.
     
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  5. LoneStarGal

    LoneStarGal Well-Known Member Donor

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    Actually it's the Democrats who are trying to crucify him solely for their own political benefit.
     
  6. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Banned Donor

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    "One would think that Presidential offenses worthy of impeachment and removal from office would by something that "clearly" threatens national security, or a series of errors which erodes the public faith and trust in the office holder."

    That describes what Trump did very well. The situation in which we find ourselves is members of the POT will not acknowledge the objective reality of what you described.
     
  7. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    As I said, you only see him as an innocent victim.
     
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  8. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Banned Donor

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    Please stop repeating fatuous talking points. Dem leadership resisted the idea of impeachment until they could no longer ignore clear violations of the Constitution, the public trust, the law, and compromising national security.
     
  9. Etbauer

    Etbauer Well-Known Member

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    Believe it or not, there is an answer to this. No amount of harm to the United States will ever sway them, but, if he did anything progressive they would turn on him. For example, if he ever did anything about gun violence, they would turn on him.
     
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  10. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Self serving toilet fodder. You need high crimes and misdemeanors. Looking to see if a potential opponent was engaged in corrupt acts us neither. It is simple due diligence. Now trying to frame some one would constitute a high crime or misdemeanor as was done with Carter Page.
     
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  11. LoneStarGal

    LoneStarGal Well-Known Member Donor

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    Fatuous talking points? Are you looking in the mirror?

    Pelosi resisted impeachment until pressure from her far-left cohorts pressured her and until she had enough Democrats (only) supporting an impeachment vote. Nadler and Schiff have been out to impeach Trump since day 1, regardless whether the charges they dug for where serious or not.

    Plus, Pelosi moved to impeachment after it became clear that all the Democrat candidates are too weak to beat Trump without the continued character assassination and the supposed "stain" of impeachment. The whole thing is to make Trump less electable so that Slow Joe or Snake Warren can win the 2020.

    Anyway, the thread topic is to conservatives, "What would it take to impeach?" A phone call between Trump and Zelensky congratulating each other and talking about corruption investigations is not enough for conservatives.
     
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  12. Just A Man

    Just A Man Well-Known Member

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    I think what Joe Biden did as Vice President is more of an impeachable crime than anything Trump came close to.
     
  13. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Donor

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    Evidence of actual crimes- that's what it takes. The opinions of hateful and vindictive people with one eye closed are not evidence of anything except that they are hateful, vindictive and immature people.

    Let's take your reference to the Hunter Biden situation. Was this an arrangement by where Joe's position puts Hunter in there at $83k a month in return for a political connection? When Hunter has zero skills?
    Of course, it rankly smells of that. IF that were all there was- it's questionable. However, that is not all there is.

    Hunter had another fat deal with China- again, where Joe was the connecting factor. However, that is still not all there is.

    Joe's brother Frank and other members of Bidens family have all wound up with similar sweet deals. When a ranking politicians family all wind up on the gravy train with positions where they have no skill and do nothing but get money and the deals all connect to the politician- Do you need instructions to connect the dots?

    Trump requested; he did not demand that Ukraine look into the Biden connection to Burisma corruption. That's not actually new; Obama was doing it- very covertly, and that inquiry was kept totally under the rug in the oval office. Obama knew what was happening, and chose to ignore it. There is now hard evidence and witnesses to that.

    The string of corruption here is not only extensive with Biden, it's actually a thing many politicians are doing to use their position to enrich their families. An entity wanting influence cannot just pay or gift the politician it wants to influence, that is openly illegal. However making a ludicrous deal with their family is not- unless it can be shown that the deal connects to the politician and political leverage. When everyone in your family is profiting in this way, the connection becomes very clear.

    Should Trump be impeached for threatening to expose that?
    He didn't do it or anything like it- but he did threaten the entire congress by opening the door to the very corruption Obama chose to keep under the rug. A lot of democrats got mad about that; it was a no-no. Politicians are not supposed to snitch on politicians. Rules of the good-ol-boy club that all congress belongs to.

    Details on this are in news now, and a book documenting it in far greater detail is just out. A brief summary is in this New York Post article-
    https://nypost.com/2020/01/18/how-f...dens-family-got-rich-through-his-connections/
     
  14. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Donor

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    What Trump is accused of is worthy of a 30 second campaign ad in the general election this fall. It's a joke to think this is enough for impeachment.

    Using this standard, every one of our prior 44 presidents should have been impeached.
     
  15. LoneStarGal

    LoneStarGal Well-Known Member Donor

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    Actually, no I don't. Simply making a blanket assumption about what someone else "sees" isn't worth much. That's exactly what Democrats are doing - projecting assumptions, presumptions and motivations onto the President. There is no real substance in their accusations.

    To the thread topic: Circumstantial evidence is not enough to impeach.
     
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  16. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Donor

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    Obama did worse things (Fast & Furious, IRS scandal, etc., etc.) and NOTHING happened.

    So when this Ukraine B.S. comes up and the Dems & msm try to mount a coup, conservatives are naturally going to fight back.

    Obama did nothing for Ukraine. He told Ukraine to disarm because we would protect them, but then he gave them no military aid at all.
     
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  17. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Donor

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    They also had a lot of hurt feelings. That was a key part of their impeachment investigation in the House.
     
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  18. Etbauer

    Etbauer Well-Known Member

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    Oh? make this same case against obama.
     
  19. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yes, Obama had some serious scandals. But none of them rose to the level of impeachment.

    And nothing Trump has done is worthy of impeachment. This is purely political by the Dems.
     
  20. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    We have the transcript of the call. Not circumstantial.
    We have witnesses, witnesses who listened in on the call. Not circumstantial.
    We have a timeline on the military aid funding to the Ukraine. Not circumstantial.
    We have Trump publicly admitting he has withheld information from Congress. Not circumstantial.
     
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  21. Etbauer

    Etbauer Well-Known Member

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    When exactly did he abuse the power of his office to keep himself in power?

    Of course it's political.
     
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  22. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Banned Donor

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    You do realize you can't actually prove anything you think you know about (Fast & Furious, IRS scandal, etc., etc.), right?

    If you'd like to try, please proceed. I'm always up for a good laugh.
     
  23. Le Chef

    Le Chef Well-Known Member Donor

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    Many do, I have to agree.

    Putting that aside, has the House if Representatives alleged impeachable offenses in your opinion?
     
  24. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Banned Donor

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    Prove it.
     
  25. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    After yelling 'impeach" before he was sworn in, a bogus Russia investigation that was a complete failure, the empty Mueller report, and now a phony Ukraine scandal....what else is anyone supposed to think?
     

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