To those of you who are wearing masks in public.

I conceded abslolutely nothing.

Are you satisfied with Trump's plan for opening America as presented on the White House web site?

Do you think there are ANY states that meet Trump's criteria for opening our economy?


You have said you think we should be opening our economy.

I just think it's time that the specifics of how to do that are discussed.

I asked you very simple, straight forward questions that can not POSSIBLY be construed as an attack on you, Trump or anyone else.

Why are you backing out?

 

You made several unsubstantiated claims. When asked to back them up you choked. You conceded.

Yes. Because it gives states the right to do as they see fit. Just like how the states were shut down. Each under different plans tailored to the problems and needs of individual states and regions within those states. The criteria are a bit arbitrary because a mistake made in say one business in one corner of a state could new skew case rates and put the whole state outside the criteria. That’s why governors work with local health departments to make decisions. We don’t want a restaurant to go out of business from lack of reopening 200 miles across a state from a meat packing plant that had a spike in cases putting the entire state out of the declining for 14 days or whatever criteria.

What I think doesn’t matter. It’s being reported there are two. I don’t care enough to look up their stats to verify it but if you are spun up about it fact check it. But quit asking the same question I’ve already answered. It makes your whole argument look petty.

Yep.

So don’t keep us in suspense. Give us your opinion or some facts and statistics. What’s your beef with the WH plan?

Hey, I support Federalism. I’m not going to tell state governors what to do to make some forum member happy. I’m not the authoritarian in this discussion. I know you don’t like the answer that I believe states should make the decision, but that’s my answer. That’s how it should be. The White House plan is a bit subjective out of the necessity of complying with the fact we are a nation of states. I understand many want top down control of every aspect of life pandemic or not, but you are going to have to wait 30 years or so until my generation is too old to care or dead.

 

I conceded nothing.

Yes, the plan calls for states to make the decision. But, that is just a matter of who makes the decision, NOT what the plan entails.

The PLANNING part of it states requirements for progressing to Phase 1 and then requirements for progresing on to Phase 2.

I'm asking you if you agree with the PLAN, not with who makes the decision.

Please remember that I have stated NO BEEF with the WhiteHouse plan on WhiteHouse.gov.



Do you know of ANY state in the USA that has met the WhiteHouse.gov plan for entering Phase 1?

 

There are no more phases, and there are no more reopening plans.

The leftists took to the streets en masse in direct violation of any and all isolation and social distancing guidelines and rules and plans and phases, and, in doing so, they've collapsed all of it.

They've made a mockery of all the plans, and COVID strategy is now officially cancelled. The left has decided that rioting and destruction has taken precedence over COVID mitigation and there is no more pushback against reopening and breaking social isolation.

The crazy leftist rioters have kicked the door wide open.

The Great Karening is no more.

 

Case in point-

COVID-mitigation strategy CANCELLED.

 

Keep telling yourself that. Failure to back up a claim repeatedly is most certainly concession.

As a suggestion for Governors to reference it’s fine. If it was attempted to be mandated by the federal government it would be a hot steamy pile of garbage.

Yeh, so?

As a suggestion for Governors to reference it’s fine. If it was attempted to be mandated by the federal government it would be a hot steamy pile of garbage.

Cool.

Please read my posts before replying.

 

You haven't answered the questin. And, you haven't proposed a reason for the question to be invalid.

Once again:

Do you agree with the methoology of the president's published plan for opening America?

Do you know of a state which has satisfied the requirements for entering Phase 1 as specified in that plan?

It's EASY to talk about how we all want the economy to open. But, I know few who believe it should be a totally ad hoc, unplanned activity - certainly not the politicians, contagious disease exxperts and business representatives who put together the president's plan.

That is, there need to be rational guidelines that have received reasonable thought.

What we need is a legitimate plan for how we go about this.

I'm proposing that the president's plan be strongly considered.

 

I’ve answered all your questions. I’m sorry you don’t like the answers. I suppose they take the wind out of the sails of an authoritarian. Nobody is forcing you to go to the store, get a haircut, eat out, or go to church. You can sit home even if your governor opens your state in defiance of Trump’s reopening opus.

If you want specifics states look it up. Google is your friend. I don’t remember and frankly I don’t care.

I suggest you call your governor’s office and talk to a staffer or leave a message about your support for following Trump’s plan. Your life depends on it.

 

My questions are not trick questions. I'm interested in how we go about opening our economy. While I have major problems with Trump I find his written plan for opening our economy to be significantly useful.

How could I not? The lack of planning and poor performance against objective have been a serious staple of my complaints.


If you are interested in opening our economy (and who the heck isn't), maybe you would be interested in discussing (or accepting) guidelines on how to do that most safely.

This IS a world wide problem. And, our only tools at present have to do with individual behavior. Those tools are useless if we have no guidance concerning how to cooperate.

I know there will always be psychopaths who have no interest in supporting America or our citizens as a whole. You can assume I know that.

 

I honestly don’t have a problem with the guidelines. I’m not avoiding your questions. I just don’t see the point in trying to apply them equally to states or inside states. Large geographic areas of my state don’t have any or enough cases to determine if rates are rising or falling or flat. One county in my state recently had a bunch of positives in a packing plant who actually reside in a neighboring state. There is just too much subjectivity to try and apply the guidelines generically. I think whoever is responsible for the guidelines understood that. Basically we are left with this: If an area has a bunch of people dying of C19 try and get people to avoid each other.

The elephant in the room is that in many states it isn’t going to matter what Trump, the governor, or you and I want, the residents are going to go out and work and play. I don’t see states or the federal government using physical force at this point to stop them. Well, who knows about places like CA etc. As much as some people would like the whole country’s population to be malleable compliant citizens, the fact is, a whole bunch aren’t. And now that number is increasing instead of decreasing as far as I can tell.

I also understand your desire for cooperation. But it should be obvious by now you are only going to get it from those you agree with politically and share similar circumstances with. People where I live aren’t going to cooperate well with people from NYC. Circumstances are too different and lifestyles and risk tolerances/exposures are too different. This is one reason I keep referring back to personal preparedness and decision making. Someone from a metropolis can’t even understand why people live where I do, let alone give me good advice on staying healthy here.

 

This is one unclear reference after another. It's as though you thought what you wanted to say and only wrote a fraction of what you were thinking.

 

Well you could have read the link I supplied on Canada’s food availability nightmare. It was pretty clear.

Today I was talking to the owner of the business that supplies me with stock water tanks, submersible well parts, and windmill parts. I believe he gets stock tanks direct from the manufacturer which is only 50 miles from here. Apparently product ordered today can not be delivered for at least ten weeks. Small glitches in their supply chain have created great inefficiencies even though they are trying to manufacture as normal. The final consumer can patch old tanks with tar or Water Weld and get by. But what happens when submersible pumps aren’t available, or 3 phase fuses for irrigation wells?

I have a loader tractor that’s been in the shop for almost 3 months now. A combination of labor and supply chain inefficiencies has turned a straightforward wiring harness replacement into a never ending ordeal. My other loader now has to pick up the slack, leading to further inefficiencies in my operation.

There isn’t time or space on this forum to go into all the ways forced shutdown will affect availability of food domestically and more importantly, internationally. This country consumes too many calories anyway but as the worlds largest exporter of food, we will negatively impact global food supply even though most of our direct customers are developed nations right now. I predict third world countries are going to need our help as they are not going to have any resilience in regard to food supply when the virus works its way through those populations.

When this virus got rolling good and food came up on the forum, I predicted food would only be in short supply if government interfered. It seems to be playing out that way. Fortunately, I think we are pulling back from the brink of disaster by reopening.

 

We'll see about supply chain disruptions. China is back in business.

Most of the parts you're talking about can be made by local fabricators.

 

I’m not wearing a mask for the first time since mid-March.

If thousands can crowd together in riots, encouraged by politicians and the media, the threat can’t be too serious.

 

The Emperor has no clothes.

 

No. Nobody local is making a wiring harness for a tractor with two ECMs and self driving capabilities. You have no idea what you are talking about.

But yes, China coming back on line will help. Short term. Until the next time we get the shaft from them. Hopefully we learn something from this fiasco.

Still going to ignore Canada’s food availability problem that has existed for years and is getting worse with C19? You make bizarre claims all the time that aren’t true. People are hungry in Canada and you spread misinformation about it. Now you spread misinformation about agricultural machinery you know nothing about. You are very good about demonstrating why authoritarianism is a bad idea. Because the most authoritarian are the most ignorant about virtually every subject.

 

Did you read what I wrote?

I've worked with companies that made parts their customers could no longer get from manufacturers.

"Food availability?" For sale? Affordability? What are you talking about?

The point is that the Canadian government has handed out enough money during the pandemic to hold down food insecurity. The U.S. has not. Both countries had about the same level of food insecurity before the pandemic.

You're full of it. All I said about farm machinery is that many parts for it can be fabricated by small firms.

You knew spit about derivatives, spit about economics, and now you're making a bunch of BS claims that farmers' equipment will fail and we'll all starve to death.

 

Good for you. You worked on antique tractors. You are living in the past.

Look up the definition of availability. Read the freaking link I posted.

Again. Ya Canada. There are still hungry people and it’s getting worse.

Prove US food availability is worse because of C19 than it is in Canada. Something concrete for a change. Not just Canada good, Trump/McConnell bad.

What small local firm manufactures wiring harnesses with hundreds of wires and specialty connections? Who is making variable voltage wheel position sensors? How about tapered roller bearings, races, and pins for MFWD king pin assemblies? Or maybe proprietary antennas for global positioning receivers? Because you know a guy that fabricated a tie rod for a 1950 Farmall H doesn’t mean anything today.

Yeh, yeh. I’m full of it but you can’t produce any hard evidence to prove it. If you knew anything about modern farm machinery you wouldn’t make ridiculous claims.

Again, provide some evidence. Prove you are the authority on derivatives and their definitions, not the SEC. I’m sorry but you have been proven wrong on every point. You can call me a BSer all day, but you can’t back any of your positions with facts. When you’ve tried your links support my position. The SEC categorically disagrees with you. You’re a hoot.

We won’t all starve to death. I will never starve to death because I don’t need equipment to feed myself. I need it to feed you. And I already stated businesses are done with your lockdowns anyway. There are presently problems, serious problems in agriculture, caused by shutdowns. It’s just a fact. Blowhards denying such on a forum doesn’t change that.

 

You say this to someone who taught computer science and began working with computers more than fifty years ago.

A link you posted to someone else...

Do you need more?

https://www.marketplace.org/2020/05/05/covid-19-economy-anxiety-paychecks-working-hours/

That's all you got? Wiring harnesses that can often be repaired? Roller bearings? And your best one--antennas?

Your SEC reference contradicts your claim. MBSs are not derivatives. There are hybrid instruments that combine MBSs with derivatives and are still called MBS for want of having a separate category to place them.

More of your tedious woofing. I gave you quotes and sources.

How about you providing evidence farming is being impacted significantly by farm machinery parts shortages?

 

So? You’ve claimed to be an economist as well. LOL

No. To you.

Well yes. Since I asked for a comparison and all you did was post “US bad” like I told you not to.

I asked you to point me to local businesses making these things. And don’t you think if my wiring harness was repairable I’d do that instead of spending $3000 on a new one? And you claim to know technology but can’t understand why a local company can’t make proprietary Global Positioning System parts? I literally couldn’t make up such nonsense as you spew if I tried.

Again.
“More complicated MBSs, known as collaterized mortgage obligations or mortgage derivatives, may be designed to protect investors from or expose investors to various types of risk.”

I’m sorry man. You are just wrong. No two ways about it. The SEC refers to some MBSs as derivatives. In fact it just happens to be the ones all my other links say led to the Great Recession. Just as I claimed. Undeniable fact. Next time you build a fake internet persona I suggest picking something besides “economist”. LOL

You provided a link that said derivatives were one of three crucial components of the cause of the Great Recession. Your source in a another link I provided said they were “pivotal”.

I’ve never claimed that. I said there are problems starting and it will be disastrous if we don’t open up.
https://www.insurancebusinessmag.co...ply-chain-resilience-amid-covid19-216689.aspx

https://brownfieldagnews.com/news/f...anhydrous-shortages-challenges-getting-parts/
The Brownfield link alludes to why the US ag machinery parts sector is resilient but not forever. It’s very common to transfer available parts between dealers in different localities or even across the country. But when they are gone, they are gone.

And it’s global.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.abc.net.au/article/12319704
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ol...challenges-mount-for-italys-farmers/81173/amp

 

I can prove my claim. Wanna bet the farm on it?

Get a clue. I'm not going to play your game. Anyone who knows spit knows there are plenty of fabricators around.

Don't know. When I was running an auto repair firm, we made parts for hoists we had that were old but still serviceable. Other hoists we decided weren't worth fixing.

Rather than repair a wiring harness, I might replace it depending on the cost and availability.

Do you think most businesses would hesitate fabricating proprietary parts if the producer isn't shipping? You're pretty naïve if you think so.

You make up a lot of stuff around here.

For reasons I said.

You were caught blathering away about what you know not. Instead of shutting up about it, you double down, like your jackass leader...

More of your made up nonsense.

An ad for an insurance broker seminar? Hohhhh-Kayyyy...

"Some farmers have had some issues" getting parts for equipment. Egads.

He tells Brownfield some farmers have had some issues getting parts for equipment.

“They’ve run out at the store and are calling it in and having it shipped so it’s usually another day delay on getting some of the parts,” he says. “We’ve been able to mostly look around the community and find the part we need and be able to keep going.”

Seib, a United Soybean Board Director, says the planting season has gone relatively smoothly despite the coronavirus pandemic. He grows corn and soybeans in Posey County.​

Australia? Hohhhh-Kayyyyy...

An article about a drought in Italy?

 

I really don’t care as long as you aren’t influencing the economy, you can call yourself whatever you want. But when you demonstrate you don’t know much about economics it seems odd you’d brag about being one.

You’ve made the claim. Back it up. Nobody is making those things locally.

Why do you think farmers are using antique equipment?

Well when a tractor won’t shift out of neutral without one you replace it when hours of tracing and replacing doesn’t do the trick.

They don’t have the technology to do so. They don’t have the hardware or software required.

Prove it.

Nobody cares about your opinion. The SEC refers to them as derivatives. End of story.

Yet I can substantiate my claims. You post cartoons and falsely claim Trump is my leader. Again.

Prove it.

Never heard of trade publications? Not surprised.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_magazine
And a pull quote.
“Trade publications keep industry members abreast of new developments. In this role, it functions similarly to how academic journals or scientific journals serve their audiences.”

I bet there are trade journals for economists. You should read them.

Yep. That’s my claim. It’s getting harder to source parts.

It’s a global economy. We are all competing for the same parts. That’s why I emphasized it’s a global problem.

I know. Your reading is as pour as your economics. Pull quote for you.
“Growers cannot find enough workers and do not have easy access to machinery supplies, agricultural equipment and spare parts, all [of which] is needed to work in the field.”

I know you are stuck in BC and the 1960’s, but for those of us dealing with reality in 2020 the issues are real and on a global level. I suggest you go give your Farmall H a new coat of red paint and leave agriculture and economics to those of us in the real world. When the painting is done be sure and write to the SEC and tell them they are full of BS.

 

Sure. That’s why I’m always proving you wrong on the subject.

But they can’t. Nobody has the capability without investing millions in facilities, tools, technology, and personnel.

Back up your claim.

Well that proves you don’t know anything about tracing electrical faults either.

You’re worse than a climate change denier.

If you knew what a trade publication was you wouldn’t have been incorrect in your reference to my link as an insurance ad.

You seem interested in economics and don’t know much about the subject. Trade publications are great places to learn. Try them out.

Already demonstrated that it’s beginning now.

Brilliant. Spend numerous posts bashing voluntary ending of lockdowns and then advocate for forcing people to work. Spoken like a true authoritarian. Unbelievable.

What? As a country we’re broke. And money can’t buy what isn’t being produced.

Here’s a link to where you can straighten the SEC out on their terminology.
https://www.sec.gov/oiea/QuestionsAndComments.html

I’m bored with educating you. You get the last word, (or in your case cartoon/bizarre claim/accusation without proof). Knock yourself out.

 

I wear one because I feel it's the right thing to do. If I save one person from catching something I might have, it's worth it. I went to a doctor's appointment this morning and went to check in. They took my temperature and gave me a mask (I was wearing one and they said I have to wear theirs). It was two minutes out of my life and I don't resent them for being extra careful. Yes, I know that I have the "right" to not wear one, but I'm not interested in having mini civil wars with non-wearers. I pick my battles and this one is an easy choice.

P.S. Thank you for the work you do to care for our seniors - the people that brought us into the world and paved the way for our society to grow and improve. Stay safe out there!

 

Undergrad economics degrees are readily had by those interested. I don't know why you would think mentioning having one would be bragging.

I said most of the parts could be made domestically.

I made no such claim.

No matter how many times you make the claim, mortgage backed securities are not derivatives.

It doesn't seem to be a major problem.