Traffic police should pay $$$$ to people who submit evidence of serious traffic violations

Discussion in 'Law & Justice' started by Bic_Cherry, Nov 12, 2018.

  1. Bic_Cherry

    Bic_Cherry Member

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    Traffic police should pay $$$$ to people who submit evidence of serious traffic violations.

    E.g. offences which attract 6 demerit points https://www.police.gov.sg/resources/traffic-matters/already-have-a-licence/dips or more such as:
    beating red lights, driving against flow of traffic, offences at pedestrian crossings, careless/ reckless driving, unsecured goods on vehicle, unnecessarily reversing vehicle on expressway, operating handphone whilst driving etc.

    The eye witness shall submit/ provide TP with video graphic footage clearly identifying the offending vehicle registration as well as showing the offence being committed, of clarity and quality sufficient to secure a conviction in court by the standard of 'beyond reasonable doubt'. Eye witness must also be willing to testify in court should the defendant choose to claim trial and also swear that nothing in the evidence provided is ficticious, malicious or false. The eyewitness should not have any prior relations with the offender to make sure that such reports do not involve any personal grudges or agenda.

    The traffic police shall credit 30% of the compounded fines collected into the whistle blowers bank account.

    This will allow better policing of motorist driving behavior and encourage witnesses to report serious traffic rules violations which endanger other road user's lives.

    The traffic police are unable to be everywhere 24/7 and often, they have other duties such as road blocks to catch drunk drivers, VIP escorts during political summits, traffic control during traffic lights break down/ special occasions such chinggay celebration/ marathon run road closures. Many TP mobile squad members also need to urgently respond to investigate accident incidents and are thus unable to effectively patrol streets to spot traffic offenders. TP mobile squad vehicles are also very prominent so most offenders are smart enough not to offend when the TP patrol vehicles are spotted.

    Obviously, some traffic police mobile squad riders are under stress to perform and take dangerous measures themselves to catch traffic offenders red handed. However, road safety can be better ensured if eye witnesses are rewarded for capturing evidence of instances where serious traffic offences are committed.

    Singapore traffic policeman himself used dangerous overtake maneuver without emergency lights and siren and hurt his own hand whilst trying to apprehend a reckless motorcyclist he probably spotted at beginning of video:
    https://youtu(dot)be/pVUanlFPSTA

    [YouTube]pVUanlFPSTA[/YouTube]

    PS: cyclist can also make reports about car drivers who drive too close (failure to maintain 1.5m separation rule) or drive recklessly on the road. This will go far to increase the popularity of implementing a car lite society and save many more innocent lives on the roads. Pedestrians can also complain about car drivers who refuse to stop at zebra crossings and insists on bulldozing their way through.

    Road safety will be very much improved if the traffic police crowd funds evidence leading to the conviction of errant motorist who make roads unsafe for others to use.

    Road accidents will surely decrease when every motorist knows that witnesses of serious traffic violations will be less hesitant to report such violations given that their time and efforts in doing so will be both respected as well as compensated. The traffic police profession will also be more accountable because repeat traffic offenders will be less common sight (quickly apprehended) unlike currently, where witnesses previously hesitate to report/ upload footage on to the internet due to inconvenience, but suddenly join the #meetoo movement and upload videos of incorrigible offenders who have extremely dangerous driving habits or eventually kill someone on the streets once everyone finally discovers that the road emperor that they all encountered is very dangerous and stark naked:
    [​IMG]
     
  2. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Donor

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    You don't want to pay the public to present evidence that someone committed a crime.
    That would result in false accusations, since there are some people out there desperate for money and would do or say anything to get it.

    There's a particular story that comes to mind about a man who was falsely convicted of rape after a mentally unstable drug addict woman successfully sued the alcohol rehab facility the two had been staying at, and then after she was awarded the money in the civil suit, she was pressured into testifying in the criminal case.

    So then she was in tears in the courtroom claiming this man had brutally raped her, because if she didn't she'd have to go back on her previous testimony in the civil court, and would have risked getting into big trouble, and likely would have had to return the money that had been awarded to her.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2018
  3. Bic_Cherry

    Bic_Cherry Member

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    Please note that to qualify for whistle blower payout, offences with adequate evidence reported must be of serious traffic offences like ignoring traffic light signals, careless or dangerous driving, failure to give way at pedestrian crossings, drive against flow of traffic, Use of mobile telephone while driving etc.

    'Small' (less serious) offences like failure to signal, drive on bus lanes, crossing road divider/ double white lines are 4 demerit points or less offences and thus do not qualify for any payouts (except salary compensation if u are subpoena as prosecution witness in court).

    6 demerit points offences, fine is only S$150 ba, so payout should be $45 (30%), more just a token of appreciation from traffic police for helping to keep reckless drivers off the streets, will probably not be enough to become a full time job. But a suitable sideline if u are a taxi driver , grab driver or food etc delivery man as well.
     
  4. GrayMan

    GrayMan Well-Known Member

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    Wouldn't this encourage people to use cellphones while driving?
     
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  5. Bic_Cherry

    Bic_Cherry Member

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    Which is why video graphic footage clearly showing the severe traffic violation and unmistakably identifying the registration plate number of the offending vehicle is necessary to qualify for the whistle blower reward payout.

    Other submissions of criminal evidence is always welcomed but because this reward system is a newly proposed scheme for traffic offences happening in Singapore, only serious offences which significantly endager humannlife such as hand phone operations whilst driving, offences at pedestrian crossings, failure to heed traffic light signals and road direction markings etc will whistle blowers be rewarded under this scheme.

    If the number of road fatalities can be decreased, traffic police officers can even be re-deployed to other operations such as road blocks to nab drunk drivers or coordinated sting operations to arrest speeding vehicles.

    There are sufficient checks and balances (against fradulent evidence being submitted for moneytary gain) for this new scheme to work out and there is thus no reason why governments across the world shouldn't implement this to ensure road safety within the jurisdictions which they govern.

    Some examples of the quality of videographic footage necessary to secure conviction for the offence can be found at the following Facebook account website:
    https://m.facebook.com/SGRVigilante/
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2018
  6. Bic_Cherry

    Bic_Cherry Member

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    Anybody can collect and submit evidence to the traffic police for prosecution and summons and the person may be a passenger, cyclist or pedestrian as well.

    To operate a handphone whilst driving is an offence, however, pedestrians and vehicle passengers are free to do so.

    The quality of car windshield mounted cameras is nowadays very good and includes back, front and even sometimes side facing cameras too (especially those installed on public buses).

    Some examples of good quality footage of traffic offences captured are as follows:

    https://m.facebook.com/SGRVigilante/
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2018
  7. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Donor

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    It might work in East Asian countries, but I think in America such an approach would be seen as too authoritarian, and reminiscent of Gestapo and KGB tactics of getting the citizenry to inform and snitch on each other.
     
  8. Bic_Cherry

    Bic_Cherry Member

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    Serious road traffic violations risk life and limb of innocent pedestrians and other vulnerable road users.

    Everyone has a part to play in road safety and the traffic police has failed miserably according to the measure of the number of serious road safety violations committed on a daily basis across Singapore (handphone operations whilst driving, offences at pedestrian crossings, failure to conform to traffic light signals etc).

    The punishment for committing homicide is very severe, yet car drivers are given just a slap on the wrist for committing these very dangerous offences by totally ignoring traffic regulations and using their cars like deadly weapons or to displace their pent up personal frustrations on other vulnerable and innocent road users like cyclist, pedestrians etc.

    More credit (and $$$ reward) should thus be given to whistle blowers and more efforts made to improve road safety in the world.

    The technology is ripe and ready, so why are the governments of the world dragging their feet?

    As for your response about FP video showing police bike crashing into car mirror? Just goes to show how dangerous a job policing the streets is (and also how unqualified some policemen are for the job). However the solution is now under the nose. Police department shouldn't be greedy/ penny wise and pound foolish. They can actually cut down the number of highway patrols if they implement productive policies like whistle blower $$$ reward schemes. Road safety will be improved many folds and government income from fines collected will actually INCREASE with the number of law breakers caught.

    The problem with policy makers is that either they are fast asleep inside their ivory towers, or else they are the worst of law breakers (the most reckless of drivers) themselves.

    Thus the hesitation to implement effective road safety policies ensuring inclusive travel safety and efficiency for all.
     
  9. Bic_Cherry

    Bic_Cherry Member

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    Just catch a few drivers and it will again be a pleasure to be a pedestrian or cyclist again in Singapore.

    However, if u deliberately and repeatedly jump out of the bushes wearing dark clothings or sprint towards the zebra crossing at high speed, maybe the car driver with a dashboard camera can counter accuse u of attempting to stage an accident or maybe illegal entrapment or abuse/misuse of pedestrian crossing points/ harassment/ creating a public nuisance of yourself.

    Your footage (assuming body worn or head mounted camera) should show u approaching zebra crossing at reasonable pedestrian speed (even if jogging) and also practice the normal road safety skills that a normal, typical pedestrian would (looking at on coming traffic before crossing).

    For such instances of whistle blower reward, it is preferable that the victim is a witness him/herself, unless the car driver's behavior is so egregious that no defence is possible in court. Decision to prosecute will still remain with the police department and no whistle blower reward will be paid if the police have reasons not to proceed due to poor or inadequate evidence or witness unwilling to step forward. However, police will have to be mindful about the court of public opinion if the offence is truely obvious and the evidence is sound.

    On 2nd thought, traffic police should just install a zebra crossing camera for offence hot spots. These cameras need not be monitored, however, should any cyclist or pedestrians complain about car driver's dangerous driving behavior, then traffic police can retrieve the relevant footage and decide who was in the wrong (e.g. if cyclist approached at a speed in excess of the 10kph limit (although car driver would still assume partial fault because he has to be on constant lookout). Pedestrians and PMD using shared paths shouldn't be expected to wear head mounted cameras and traffic police cameras at crossings and junctions (in a cosmopolitan city like Singapore) should be considered a necessary public good (so that justice can be better served).

    However, whistle blower reward will not be paid if the video relied upon is the property of the LTA or SPF (government installed cameras) because the victim did not make any signifant contribution towards increasing road safety in Singapore. In future, AI should be installed in zebra crossing observing cameras so that instances of offence can be automatically surfaced and summons issued with minimum human intervention: this can be a very good revenue source for technologically advanced governments across the world.
     
  10. Bic_Cherry

    Bic_Cherry Member

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    The traffic policeman who hit the car left mirror when overtaking and injured his right hand is a poorly trained rider https://youtu(dot)be/pVUanlFPSTA and ought receive demerit points at work for his reckless actions (unless his high risk maneuver was justified by proof that his quarry was a serious criminal like drug kingpins/murderer/ suicide terrorist bomber etc he needed to apprehend at all costs).

    Otherwise, he had taken excessive and unnecessary risk to apprehend just a minor traffic offender.

    That it is difficult to employ good mobile squad traffic police riders and the fact that there are too many roads to be physically policed by TP mobile squad patrol members means the need to rely heavily on citizen whistle blowers who make the effort to collect and submit quality footage and also acceed to the inconvenience of being subpoena as prosecution witnesses should the case entail.

    The 30% fines reward is just a small token the state is more than able to afford. The main thing is to ensure and enforce road safety and failure to implement simply reflects a failure of government to govern the country properly.

    In fact, my proposal may in fact be a net positive government revenue generator and a budget savings solution. Many traffic accidents can be avoided and thus government subsidised medical treatments and social welfare payments for disabled road accident handicapped victims can be accordingly reduced. For every successful fine issued without the traffic policeman even stepping out of his air conditioning office, 70% of the otherwise uncollected fine is new government revenue. Traffic jams involving junctions and expressways due to serious/fatal traffic accidents will be a nightmare forgotten and the economic gains from avoidance of such traffic gridlock will be signifant.

    I haven't thought of such an essential and crucial improvement to road use and safety for a long while and this insightful epiphany of ideas is a pleasure to behold and experience. This idea must be circulated to all credible and responsible governments across the world and all societies with concern about enforcement of road safety on streets should look into my suggestions with importance and detail.

    To fail to consider/ implement this proposal is probably a failure of commitment to safety and progress in Singapore.
     
  11. Bic_Cherry

    Bic_Cherry Member

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    "token of appreciation like fairprice $10 voucher"
    [​IMG]

    Traffic violations earning 6 or more demerit points are very SERIOUS traffic violations which can easily cause death or permanent disability (offences at pedestrian crossings, HP operations while driving, careless or dangerous driving, hit-and-run cases etc).

    The Singapore tax department (IRAS) pays whistle blowers 15% of the tax evaded by the defendant (up to S$100,000). http://www.asiaone.com/News/Latest+News/Singapore/Story/A1Story20121216-389891.html

    My proposal is 30% because likely, the traffic police officer can even work from his bed at home (if he has secure encrypted intranet connection from office to home computer) to vet through the submitted evidence and then issue the summons. IRAS pays only 15% because ostensibly, IRAS still has to conduct raids to investigate further and collect sufficient evidence to secure prosecution of the tax evader.

    30% is peanuts really as compared to the hardship innocent road accident victims suffer, productivity downtime due to traffic accidents obstructing the streets, lifetime medical and social welfare payments and subsidies for accident victims.

    Pls don't be excessively moralistic/ penny wise pound foolish. There is ample technology now available to citizens enforce compliance to traffic light signals and rules on the streets. Any road fatality is really one too many and based on today's modern day technology, road fatalities like contagious infectious disease deaths, ought to be a real rarity these days.
     
  12. Bic_Cherry

    Bic_Cherry Member

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    Need to have proper roll out, big ministerial announcement and ceremony like war against diabetes carnival and campaign program, otherwise people will misunderstand government and accuse PAP of trying to earn $$$ when actually the focus of my proposal is all about saving innocent lives and promoting road safety.

    There should thus be a proper Singpass (secure citizen identity log in verification process) and case registration and record logging system, just like an employee/ hospital patient is now able to log into to see his own salary or lab results database and history as well.

    Cases are all cleared electronically and machine generated fines and whistle blower incentive rewards will all be paid up automatically (after a real police inspector has vetted the evidence and either issued the instructions for summons or rejected the case for lack of evidence of course).

    Our existing distrust for the police (favouritism/ incompetence/ sleeping on the job) and the blatant lawlessness on Singapore streets will dissipate instantaneously when appropriate modern day policing policies and technology are applied and enforced efficiently.
     
  13. Bic_Cherry

    Bic_Cherry Member

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    I have already mentioned that the primary focus of the program would be to reduce the number of road accident injuries and fatalities as well as to assist the traffic police in enforcing traffic rules and regulations.

    There may be other evidence submission permutations such as if the same case is reported by 2 separate witnesses or if only partial but crucial video evidence footage were submitted.

    The traffic police also have their own automatic traffic offense detection systems such as the red light cameras https://www.police.gov.sg/resources...t-camera-locations/red-light-camera-locations installed at many locations. Public witness submissions may duplicate whatever offenses already being processed by the traffic police automatic junction video/ camera systems.

    All these backend work processes will require a small army of public relations and administrative staff to process, manage and account financially for (just like the national steps challenge program against T2 diabetes mellitus and sedentary lifestyle https://www.healthhub.sg/programmes/37/nsc )

    These regulatory as well as administrative processes may be self-financing and require both technological as well as manpower investments (which may well costs up 70% of all the fines collected), leaving a small proportion of approx 30% to be shared with socially conscious road users who assist the police in it's enforcement role by submitting quality videographic witness footage of serious traffic rule violations or accident footage incidentally captured on their dashboard cameras.

    Not all footage would immediately result in reward payments for evidence submitted (e.g. if it duplicates what police already have), however, police would have to be much more accountable for it's workflow and investigation processes since with the reward mechanism in place, witnesses who have submitted evidence would possibly enquire to find out about the outcome of police investigations. Facebook groups such as https://m.facebook.com/SGRVigilante/ may also update users upon the police investigative outcome as well as the payout reward received.

    Despite the signifant amount of planning, coordination and organisational effort needed (just like the national steps challenge campaign), this program will signifantly decrease the incidence of serious traffic rule violations and significantly improve road safety all around the world.

    The question for Singapore remains, is our smart Alec, paternalistic PAP goverernment up to the challenge, or will other lesser developed countries lead the way forward as Singapore tumbles downwards on the human development charts.

    (PS: human development calculations should include number of traffic fatalities and injuries due to accidents and other mishaps since a high rate suggests poor transportation safety standards which are a hallmark of good human social development).
     
  14. Bic_Cherry

    Bic_Cherry Member

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    U are referring to the cases where some China pedestrians throw themselves at cars to fake accidents and then extort compensation for 'injuries' caused and use the threat of making a police report to achieve such. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/21/world/asia/china-traffic-scam-fraud.html

    I do not think that there is any signifant risk of my proposed eyewitness, evidence submission $$$ incentive reward scheme, suffice to say, wrt pedestrians and cyclist who will probably be wearing body, helmet or PMD affixed cameras, footage for at least say 3 mins or 150m before the episode of the traffic offence commission should be included. This pre-requisite will probably automatically eliminate the possibility of deliberate entrapment by a pedestrian who suddenly jumps out of a blind corner onto the zebra crossing with the intention of having a near miss with a car approaching. The footage will display this abnormal behavior and the pedestrian himself may be charged with public nuisance, misuse of road transport infrastructure, an attempt to cause a road traffic accident or even extortion if any such threat was also made. Many cars also have dashboard cameras and the police can judge whom the real offender was in each particular case (all from the comfort of air-con office chair based upon the evidence provided and maybe in-person interviews if needed).

    As for say button triggered pedestrian crossing traffic lights signals where some individuals may deliberately trigger the system not to cross but to catch drivers who fail to stop at red lights at unearthly hours at night. Such individuals could actually be doing the police a favor by training car drivers to reflexively stop at all red lights when faced with one, even if no pedestrian is about to cross. However, the police can warn repeat submitters of such evidence that misuse of pedestrian crossing traffic signals system is a public nuisance offence and that he should cease from setting up such sting operations in the middle of the night. There would also be a limit as to the number of incentive reward $$$ payments one can receive, especially for cases where the footage is obtained from a deliberate sting operations since just like the national steps challenge (a healthy lifestyle campaign), there are limits to the number of bonus credits that one can earn because being partly a public health awareness campaign, the intention is for as many people to participate as possible. Perhaps there can be a maximum quantum of incentive rewards$$$ achievable per annum and any further submissions will not be paid incentive$$$ although police will still process the evidence and issue the points and fines accordingly.

    This way, road traffic accidents will probably shrink by at least 50% which is probably a very conservative guess.
     
  15. Blaster3

    Blaster3 Well-Known Member

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    while we're at it, lets pass out citation booklets and a lil flashin red light to all licensed motorists :rolleyes:
     
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  16. Bic_Cherry

    Bic_Cherry Member

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    I have more or less excluded the effect of entrapment because only SERIOUS offences (@ zebra crossing, at traffic light junctions, hand phone operations whilst driving, drunk driving etc): all offences which attract 6 demerit points or more. (Entrapment by cyclist or pedestrians who wear dark clothings and spring out from zebra crossings or misuse pedestrian crossings traffic signals to entrap drivers I have already covered this issue previously before).

    It is unlikely that a person can induce another to beat a traffic light (save manipulating the light signals themselves which should be tamper proof to begin with); neither is it likely for someone to manage to induce a driver to operate his handphone whilst driving unless one is a passenger inside the vehicle, in which case, the video might suggest that the witness was in abetment of the crime whist entrapping his victim.

    There shall be a personal quota per annum as to how many reports can receive incentive$ reward payments so that people do not turn it into a full time job as well as to ration the payouts to achieve maximum individuals and locations participating as well as control the police workflow (police themselves may not have necessary manpower to process so many reports because so many Singaporeans are impatient, inconsiderate and reckless drivers).

    In short, I have already considered the put falls about how a similar scheme was rolled out in China and have the necessary mechanisms to signifantly if not almost completely eradicate the pitfalls which happened in China if lessons are learnt and a properly planned and conceived scheme, to reduce road fatalities as well as increase road safety awareness, is rolled out in Singapore.

    PS: non signifantly life/limb threatening offences like driving in bus lanes/ expressway breakdown lanes, parking offences etc can better be policed by LTA and traffic police sting operations or third party hired contractors at hot spot locations. Whilst traffic police will still process complaints where the offence attracts under 6 demerit points, because the purpose of my scheme/ campaign is to reduce fatalities as well as increase awareness about road safety, only complaints with quality evidence where the offence committed is of 6 demerit points or more shall be financially rewarded.

    LTA appointed sub contractor at work enforcing no parking rules and regulations along Princep street : [​IMG] https://www.channelnewsasia.com/new...halimah-yacob-car-double-yellow-lines-9521096
     
  17. Bic_Cherry

    Bic_Cherry Member

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    Might as well do away with the police and all their street cameras then (they could be 'secret' after all). This is about innocent human lives (homicide by lawless motor vehicle use).

    And u need proper video evidence in order to get the incentive reward, so it's not like arbitrary or faked charges can be made no up.

    Besides Singapore, many countries IRAS (tax revenue department) and anti-corruption police have reasonable generous whistle blower reward schemes to reduce tax evasion and corruption respectively.

    So human lives don't matter? (Don't deny that u yourself also somewhat need money, just like a majority of people who work, either to enjoy some luxury or just to survive.)

    It does take some effort to learn up on traffic rules and obey them as well as time to submit details and the proper video of evidence of serious traffic offences/ near misses to the traffic police department as well as agree to be supeona to court if defendent claims trial.

    The traffic police department image is also tarnished because with so many uninvestigated videos submitted online, people will conclude that traffic police department is just a bunch of toothless/ corrupt people, as evidenced by the fact that there are so many videos of inconsiderate and reckless drivers online: ignoring traffic rules, ostensibly either because the traffic police can be easily bribed to drop cases, relatively understaffed due to increase in roads built or else plain lazy and avoid conducting patrols at all etc (any or even all of these reasons could be the cause).

    Even China is giving out witness incentive $$$ rewards for evidence submission although due to poor conceptualization and inclusion of more minor traffic offences some witness wannabes have unfortunately gone overboard. https://tinyurl.com/y7dx3dj4

    If the traffic police is indeed sincere about curbing the number of accidents happening on Singapore streets (as serious as IRAS and CPIB are at their respective roles), then they should really implement this witness evidence submission incentive reward scheme.

    There is nothing respectable nor defendable about endangering human life by failing to conform to traffic light signals, ignoring pedestrians/PMD at zebra crossings or operating a mobile phone whilst driving: these antisocial and dangerous drivers need to be hauled to task before they cause another homicide on the streets.

    You or your loved one could one day also be the meaningless innocent victim of a reckless driver who has the habit of ignoring traffic rules without the chance of being caught... perhaps only on that day would you realize how easily such a tragedy could have been avoided, if only our policy makers actually cared about innocent lives more.

    PS: even the UK is doing it, it's only the Singapore traffic police force who are sleeping on the job. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...public-evidence-motorists-behaving-badly.html
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2018
  18. Matt22yuc

    Matt22yuc Active Member

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    Why not just take that money and give it to the police departments to better do their jobs. I highly doubt very many people would actually bother in their day to day lives to participate in it anyways.
     

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