Trailblazing female who became infantry Marine is getting kicked out for fraternization

Hmm...

Trailblazing female who became infantry Marine is getting kicked out for fraternization

Remedios Cruz joined the Marine Corps in 2013 as a supply clerk. One year later, she completed infantry training, and in 2017, made history when she became one of three females to join 1st Battalion, 8th Marines at Camp Lejeune, North Carolina.

Now, Cruz is awaiting separation from the Marine Corps after pleading guilty to maintaining a romantic relationship with a subordinate.

Cruz, 26, eventually married the person, who was a lower-ranking Marine in her unit, according The New York Times.

“The biggest mistakes I’ve made in the infantry were from my personal relationships,” Cruz told the Times. “I really want to move on.”

Well yeah.



Clearly the uncool Marine Corps should start dating squads and integrate them into Infantry units, so that Infantry can get used to the idea of team members banging each other. It's the only way to provide good order and discipline.

 

Didn't the ancient Greeks encourage soldiers to **** each other to improve morale and zeal in battle? I can understand why it would be bad to date a subordinate in the sense of unfair treatment to other subordinates, but the solution to that is to move one of the persons so that there is no longer a direct supervisory work relationship. Punishment like this is way too harsh.

I mean, if you dedicate your life to something who else are you going to **** and marry besides people at work? I guess there's always tinder, but might not work in the military given that it tracks your location.

 

Everyone of lesser rank is a subordinate.

She's not working at Wendys.

 

This is why women and gay men do not belong in combat units.

 

I said direct supervisory role. Not every sergeant is your sergeant.

 

This doesn't demonstrate anything about that except that an arbitrary rule was violated.

 

They are in the USMC.

 

Fraternization isn't an arbitrary rule in the military.

 

It's an arbitrary rule anywhere. Explain its importance.

 

COOL

 

Ok.

Get a group of your coworkers together and tell them to charge a machine gun nest.

Post results.

 

What does that have to do with fraternization?

 

Try to get them to charge a machine gun nest and you'll find out.

 

People are more likely to charge a machine gun nest together if they haven't had sex? Is that your assertion?

 

The military is not a normal job. You give orders to those of lower rank. Orders which often risk their lives. Those of lower rank must know that they are all being treated equally and fairly.

Let's say you're having sex with a member of your fire team.

You order the other two to advance on the machine gun.

Those two ask why you're not sending the person you're having sex with at the machine gun.

Can you see how you can't be friends with and/or poking the people you're ordering to risk their lives?

It breaks down military discipline, order, and causes chaos.

If you'd like to read more, here you go:

https://www.thebalancecareers.com/marine-corps-fraternization-policies-3354365

 

Every straight female officer I knew in the military preyed on their young enlisted guys. Every one of them.

 

That **** happened in the Marine Corps too, but when someone got caught....whoooo boy.

 

Clearly you didn't see the news story about Air Force personal giving up locations of secret government installations with their Fit Bits.

 

Clearly I did, given my last statement that you quoted.

 

Gay men I don't have a problem with but women don't belong simply because of biological reasons. They are weaker, slower, far less endurance and more prone to join and muscle injuries than males meaning more down time where they are dead weight. On top of that they all magically get pregnant at the start of a war and I heard this from two females who were in the military. I also did a quick google on it and apparently there is a sharp uptick of pregnancies just before and during initial deployment in time of war.

 

When you said "might not work" I took that as ambiguity. Sarcasm is sometimes lost in text.

 

I'm curious as to your response to vman12's response in post #15. He sums up fairly succinctly the military view, and why soldiering isn't like your civilian job.

 

Fraternization in the Military: Legal Issues

Fraternization in the military relates to prohibited personal relationships between military service members of different ranks and positions. Fraternization involves improper relationships, ranging from overly casual relationships to friendships to romantic relationships.

When this occurs between officers and enlisted service members or between some other hierarchical pairing, as between a commander and an officer or enlisted soldier in her command, it can potentially undermine the chain of command, order, and discipline. Not all contact between enlisted persons and officers or subordinates and superiors is prohibited, just contact that would compromise (or have the appearance of compromising) order, discipline, and the chain of command.

This article discusses the basics of fraternization in the military, the likelihood of facing charges, consequences, and possible defenses. See FindLaw's Military Criminal Law section for related articles and resources.

What Is Fraternization in the Military?

Each branch of the military used to have its own set of rules governing fraternization, but this changed in 1999 when the Department of Defense issued a issued a uniform policy for all branches to follow. The policy specified certain relationships that are always improper such as relationships between officers and enlisted service members that are personal, involve ongoing business, or involve gambling. However, any other type of relationship can also be prohibited if it has an adverse effect on a unit or chain of command, which can include just the appearance of impropriety.

That being said, a certain level of fraternization among service members of different ranks and positions is often encouraged in the military, such as softball games or other team building events. However, even this can cross the line if, for example, an officer goes out for drinks with an enlisted person after the game. This relationship could undermine the impartiality (or the perception of impartiality) of that officer or enlisted service member. Since military superiors have the authority to send troops into battle and can make or break an enlisted person's career, this specific type of fraternization is strictly prohibited. The key here in this example is whether you’re building a team or building a personal relationship.

Some exceptions do apply to the per se rules. If an officer and enlisted service member were married before joining the service or before the policy was enacted, that relationship would not violate the fraternization policy. Also, officers and enlisted service members in the Reserves or National Guard may have an ongoing business relationship based on their civilian jobs. They may also be able to have personal relationships if the relationship is due primarily to a civilian acquaintanceship. However, keep in mind that even if an exception to the policy applies, the relationship can still be prohibited if it has an adverse effect on the unit or chain of command.

When Fraternization Is Charged as an Offense

Fraternization becomes a criminal offense under Article 134 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice when the conduct "has compromised the chain of command, resulted in the appearance of partiality, or otherwise undermined good order, discipline, authority, or morale," according to the Manual for Courts-Martial (PDF). Most offenses do not lead to a court-martial. However the per se categories mentioned above could result in formal charges. But remember that such charges can only be brought against an officer based on the elements of fraternization set forth in the Manual:

1. The accused was a commissioned or warrant officer;
2. The accused fraternized on terms of military equality with one or more certain enlisted members in a certain manner;
3. The accused then knew the person(s) to be (an) enlisted member(s);
4. The fraternization violated the custom of the accused's service that officers shall not fraternize with enlisted members on terms of military equality; and
5. Under the circumstances, the conduct of the accused was to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces or was of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces.

Penalties for Violations

The penalty for fraternization in the military varies according to:

• The severity of the incident;
• Its overall impact on morale and the chain of command; and
• Other factors specific to the case.

For minor fraternization issues, the accused may receive a verbal or written reprimand. This type of action is often referred to as an administrative corrective measure.

A nonjudicial or "Article 15" process is not a trial but includes an inquiry into the facts and allows the accused a hearing, per Article 15 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Article 15 punishments may include (but are not limited to):

• A 30-day suspension from duty;
• Loss of a half-month's pay for two months;
• Confinement in quarters for 30 consecutive days; and
• Extra duties or additional limits, as deemed appropriate by the commanding officer.

A case considered flagrant or involving other serious circumstances may result in a court-martial. As with any court-martial process, the accused has access to counsel, the right to appeal, and many of the same rights civilian defendants have. The maximum punishment for a guilty verdict in a court-martial for fraternization is dismissal, forfeiture of pay, and confinement for two years.

Defenses to Fraternization Charges

Simply because someone is charged with fraternization doesn't mean that the accused lacks any recourse. There are several potential defenses to fraternization, such as:

• False accusation
• Failure to prove that the chain of command or morale was compromised
• Proof of legal marriage to enlisted member
• Proof that alleged fraternization was under the auspices of official duty

Fraternization in the military can result in serious penalties.
https://military.findlaw.com/criminal-law/fraternization-in-the-military-legal-issues.html

 

That.