Trump passes no insurance for abortions.

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by I justsayin, Jul 16, 2020.

  1. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    DUH... RvW is not a law, it's a ruling...

    AND LOL, every Repub candidate has duped some voters by promising to overturn RvW ….and it's STILL THERE after over 50 years...:nana:
     
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  2. ECA

    ECA Well-Known Member

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    Oh the irony. People like you get accuse the Left of trying to impose their way of life on the rest of the country but then here you are wanting to impose YOUR way of life on the rest of the country. That is too f’ing funny. Just can’t make this type of crap up. And for the record...I don’t want EITHER side to impose their way of life on anybody.
     
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  3. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Its not my case to prove - but nice try at avoiding the fact that you can not prove your claim.
    I am not the one claiming a single human cell is "a baby" - You are. My claim is simply that you have no proof of claim - and so far - you have not even attempted to prove your claim - never mind succeeded in that attempt.

    Many of "Faith" are in favor of legal abortion. Just because you have yet to figure out the difference between 1) having a belief and 2) forcing that belief on others ... does not mean that all Christians have similar lack of understanding of this important distinction - and the rock on which Jesus based his ministry.

    Which brings me to a question - when you say "Faith" - Faith in what ? as you certainly have no faith in the Teachings of Jesus.
     
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  4. quiller

    quiller Well-Known Member

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    Would that be the reality which moves the end-of-the-world date for man-made disasters? How it went from global warming to climate change because the facts didn't fit the narrative? That reality?
     
  5. quiller

    quiller Well-Known Member

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    I believe I correctly quote the Christ for saying, "Suffer the little children to come unto me."

    I am not a Biblical scholar, but dead babies go nowhere, to Jesus or anyone else.
     
  6. quiller

    quiller Well-Known Member

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    True enough. When has there been a clear legal majority in the Supremes, the House, the Senate, AND have a GOP President with a stronger spine than Shrub?
     
  7. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    FoxHastings said:
    DUH... RvW is not a law, it's a ruling...

    AND LOL, every Repub candidate has duped some voters by promising to overturn RvW ….and it's STILL THERE after over 50 years...:nana:


    :) Yup, and don't forget, half the population will not stand meekly by while their rights are destroyed...:)

    A "strong spine" still needs votes ;)
     
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  8. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This is the limit of your knowledge of the teachings of Jesus with respect to the issue of abortion ? A passage that really has no bearing on the issue.

    What does Jesus say with respect to law - as it is law that we are discussing here - This is not about whether or not Jesus would agree with Abortion - Adultery - and so on. It is about whether Jesus would allow the State to Punish for such offence .. in this case a capital crime - given the right people in power .. Sick people who would violate the teachings of Jesus - while dressed in white robes.

    Know you anything about these teachings ? Those given in his most famous Sermon - on the Mount. Matt 5-7.

    "Do unto others" - surely you have heard that one ?! ..
     
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  9. God & Country

    God & Country Well-Known Member

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    First, and most importantly, the outcome of Roe is harmful and unjust. Why? The facts of embryology show that the human embryo or fetus (the being whose life is ended in abortion) is a distinct and living human organism at the earliest stages of development. Human development begins at fertilization when a sperm fuses with an oocyte to form a single cell, a zygote.This highly specialized, totipotent cell marks the beginning of each of us as a unique individual.

    Justice requires that the law protect the equal dignity and basic rights of every member of the human family—irrespective of age, size, ability, dependency, and the desires and decisions of others. This principle of human equality, affirmed in the Declaration of Independence and the United Nations' Universal Declaration of Human Rights, is the moral core of western civilization. But the Roe Court ruled, to the contrary, that a particular class of innocent human beings (the unborn) must be excluded from the protection of the law and allowed to be dismembered and killed at the discretion of others. The right created by the Supreme Court in Roe, is a constitutional right of some human beings to kill other human beings.

    After Roe, the incidence of abortion rose dramatically, quickly topping one million abortions per year and peaking at 1.6 million in 1990 before gradually declining to just under one million in 2014 (the latest year for which complete estimates are available). Under the Roe regime, abortion is the leading cause of human death. More than 59 million human beings have now been legally killed. And abortion has detrimentally impacted the health and well-being of many women (and men). The gravity and scale of this injustice exceed that of any other issue or concern in American society today.

    Roe is an epic constitutional mistake. Justice Harry Blackmun's majority opinion claimed that the "right of privacy" found in the "liberty" protected by the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment is broad enough to encompass a fundamental right to abortion. There is no reason to think that's true.

    What is frightening about Roe, is that this super-protected right is not inferable from the language of the Constitution, the framers' thinking respecting the specific problem in issue, any general value derivable from the provisions they included, or the nation's governmental structure. … It is bad because it is bad constitutional law, or rather because it is not constitutional law and gives almost no sense of an obligation to try to be.

    Roe borders on the indefensible. ... Justice Blackmun's opinion provides essentially no reasoning in support of its holding. And in the … years since Roe's announcement, no one has produced a convincing defense of Roe on its own terms.

    But Roe is even more ridiculous than most observers realize. The American people adopted the Fourteenth Amendment during an era in which those same American people enacted numerous state laws with the primary purpose of protecting unborn children from abortion. A century later, Roe ruled that the Fourteenth Amendment somehow prevents Americans from doing what the ratifiers of the Fourteenth Amendment actually did. "To reach its result," Justice William Rehnquist quipped in his dissenting opinion, "the Court necessarily has had to find within the scope of the Fourteenth Amendment a right that was apparently completely unknown to the drafters of the Amendment."

    That's absurd. "The only conclusion possible from this history," Rehnquist explained, "is that the drafters did not intend to have the Fourteenth Amendment withdraw from the States the power to legislate with respect to this matter.”

    Roe and Doe v. Bolton together struck down the democratically decided abortion laws of all 50 states and replaced them with a nationwide policy of abortion-for-any-reason, whether the people like it or not. Of course, the Court may properly invalidate statutes that are inconsistent with the Constitution (which is the highest law). But Roe lacked any such justification. Roe defied the Constitution and other laws that the American people agreed upon—and imposed the will of the unelected Court instead.

    The radical (and frequently unrecognized or misreported) scope of the Roe regime, moreover, was not and has never been consistent with public opinion, which favors substantial legal limits on abortion. Millions and millions of Americans disagree with the abortion policy the Court invented. They want to have a say. The Court decided they could have none. Many abortion defenders want and expect Roe to last forever. It will not. It's true that a legal embarrassment, like Roe, can sometimes survive long-term. But not when it produces an atrocious outcome that disenfranchises millions of compassionate Americans who will not rest, and will never rest, while the Court's usurpation remains in effect.

    Sooner or later—hopefully sooner—Roe v. Wade will fall.
     
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  10. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Your entire argument is based on the premise that a single human cell is a "Legal Person" and " A Human" as in "The NOUN Form of the word Human> as opposed to the descriptive adjective "human life, human cell, human feces"

    The claim that this premise is defacto True - is demonstrably false.
     
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  11. God & Country

    God & Country Well-Known Member

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    uh.....did you notice that I didn't refer to Roe as a law, I even said not settled law and bad law referring to the ruling.
     
  12. God & Country

    God & Country Well-Known Member

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    Your opinion and many others as well but that is not where the argument will be settled is it?
     
  13. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    FoxHastings said:
    DUH... RvW is not a law, it's a ruling...

    AND LOL, every Repub candidate has duped some voters by promising to overturn RvW ….and it's STILL THERE after over 50 years...:nana:



    So what.

    This still stands:

    AND LOL, every Repub candidate has duped some voters by promising to overturn RvW ….and it's STILL THERE after over 50 years...:nana:

    ...and will be.....
     
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  14. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    You: ""The radical (and frequently unrecognized or misreported) scope of the Roe regime, moreover, was not and has never been consistent with public opinion, which favors substantial legal limits on abortion.""


    Total horsepuckey!

    Poll after poll over the years have shown CONSISTENTLY that most Americans believe abortion should be legal.


    Here's another blooper by you:"After Roe, the incidence of abortion rose dramatically,""


    Uh, no one knows that since abortions weren't tracked or recorded before that....
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2020
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  15. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It is not my opinion - it is a statement of fact that this is not settled science. The best place that the anti abort movement can get to is "Experts Disagree" - albeit in reality this is hardly the case. Most experts do not take a defacto position.

    But even if we grant that there are legitimate arguments in favor - there are also legitimate arguments against.

    So far - you have not made "ANY" secular argument that supports your claim - nor have you advanced a religious argument that supports your claim.

    but - lets assume somewhere hidden away you have a legitimate argument - this does not change the fact that there are counter arguments and claims to the contrary - by a whole lot of experts.

    "Experts Disagree" - is hardly a basis for Law messing with essential liberty. For example - if we accord this single cell some status as a quazi Person - as you would like to do - we are then left with a conflict between rights of two entities.

    We then have to weigh these against each other on the scales of justice.

    The rights of the woman are well enshrined - weighty on one side of the scale. On other side we have "Experts Disagree" = "We don't Know"

    How do we value "We don't know" ? and on what planet would this be greater than the rights of the woman - other than Earth ?
     
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  16. God & Country

    God & Country Well-Known Member

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    uh, even without data prior Roe, 50 million since 1973 that's effing genocide, c'mon.
     
  17. God & Country

    God & Country Well-Known Member

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  18. God & Country

    God & Country Well-Known Member

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    What a shame but one or two new conservatives onthe SCOTUS and the butchery will stop.
     
  19. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    Then you don't know the definition of 'genocide"..

    Poll after poll over the years have shown CONSISTENTLY that most Americans believe abortion should be legal.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2020
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  20. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    FoxHastings said:
    AND LOL, every Repub candidate has duped some voters by promising to overturn RvW ….and it's STILL THERE after over 50 years...:nana:


    How? What new "argument" has anyone come up with?

    Then there's all those women who won't take having their basic human rights taken away …..

    Then there's the FACT that abortion will not stop even if made illegal....it has always been around and will always be around...
     
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  21. God & Country

    God & Country Well-Known Member

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    You said it yourself it was just a ruling not a law and as you know very bad law. It, like the ACA was hastily rammed through and those that sponsored it didn't do their homework and of course politics played a part. Roe has always stood on shakey ground but was propped up by politics and the abortion industry. If we get a 6 to 3 SCOTUS Roe will disappear I promise you.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2020
  22. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    Do you mean miscarriage?
     
  23. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    GO look it up

    Me just telling you will not educate in those baseline facts you need
     
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  24. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    No RvW has a very sound legal basis
     
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  25. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    No it won’t

    that is a pipe dream
     
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