Trump says 'major tax cut for middle-income people' coming in 10 days

Discussion in 'Budget & Taxes' started by Zorro, Oct 21, 2018.

  1. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    In no year did the debt decrease and all decreases in public debt were due to increases in intergovernmental holdings, raiding SS to fund government and pay private debt that was not being rolled over.

    And all of this was done despite soaking the taxpayers with huge tax increases.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2018
  2. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    Amazing how well the country was doing considering the taxpayers were being soaked.
     
  3. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    The last number is debt to GDP ratio. Second is national debt.

    1977 $699 33%
    1978 $772 32%
    Carter budgets.

    Volcker raised rate to 20%. Iran oil embargo. Recession.

    1979 $827 31%
    1980 $908 32%
    1981 $998 31%
    1982 $1,142 34% Reagan budgets from 1st term. Recession.
    1983 $1,377 37%
    1984 $1,572 38%
    1985 $1,823 42%
    1986 $2,125 46% Reagan lowered taxes. S&L Crisis.
    1987 $2,340 48%
    1988 $2,602 49%
    1989 $2,857 50%
    1990 $3,233 54% Bush 41 budgets. Desert Storm. Recession. Debt growth slowed.
    1991 $3,665 59%
    1992 $4,065 62%
    1993 $4,411 64%
    1994 $4,693 64%
    Clinton budgets.

    Budget Act reduced deficit spending.

    1995 $4,974 65%
    1996 $5,225 64%
    1997 $5,413 62%
    1998 $5,526 61% Last Clinton budgets. 9/11 attacks. Recession. Bush added $22.9 billion to FY01 budget for War on Terror.
    1999 $5,656 58%
    2000 $5,674 55%
    2001 $5,807 55%
    2002 $6,228 57%
    First George W. Bush budgets. War on Terror cost $409.2 billion. Bank bailout cost $350 billion. Bush tax cuts.

    2003 $6,783 59%
    2004 $7,379 60%
    2005 $7,933 60%
    2006 $8,507 61%
    War cost $752.2 billion. Katrina cost $24.7 billion. ARRA added $241.9 billion to FY09 budget.

    2007 $9,008 62%
    2008 $10,025 68%
    2009 $11,910 ($11,000 on Mar 16 and $12,000 on Nov 16) 83%
    2010 $13,562 ($13,000 on Jun 1 and $14,000 on Dec 31) 90%
    Obama Stimulus Act cost $400 billion. Payroll tax holiday ended. War cost $512.6 billion. Great Recession and tax cuts reduced revenue.

    2011 $14,790 ($15,000 on Nov 15) 95%
    2012 $16,066 ($16,000 on Aug 31) 99%
    2013 $16,738 ($17,000 on Oct 17) 99%
    2014 $17,824 ($18,000 on Dec 15) 101%
    War cost $309 billion. QE ended. Strong dollar hurt exports.

    2015 $18,151 99%
    2016 $19,573 ($19,000 on Jan 29) 104%
    2017 $20,245 ($20,000 on Sep 8) 103% Congress raised debt ceiling.
    2018 $21,516 ($21,000 on Mar 15.) 104% Trump tax cuts and spending above sequestration. Congress suspended the debt ceiling until 2019.
    2019 $22,703 (est.) 108%
    2020 $23,901 (est.) 108%
    2021 $25,020 (est.) 108%
    Resources for Table
     
  4. StillBlue

    StillBlue Well-Known Member

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    Had W stuck to the budget instead of giving rebates, remember those were done during Clinton's last budget, the debt would have been reduced.
     
  5. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    The debt and intergovernmental holdings (borrowing from SS) grew throughout the entire Clinton presidency. Screwing the elderly for political gain.
    Yay!
     
  6. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    The "country" was growing its debt despite massive tax increases.

    And the people were busy converting home equity into debt and calling the spending an "economy"
     
  7. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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  8. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Trump doesn't lie, we got the tax cut last week, the media is fake news, they just are not reporting it, the media is the enemy of the people, Trump is our savior

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2018
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  9. StillBlue

    StillBlue Well-Known Member

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    Which is, of course, wrong. SS was required to buy treasury bonds with it's surplus. No choice. Clinton's last budget was balanced and would have produced a surplus without SS surpluses. This is why Volker went along with the tax rebate and Bush Jrs cuts in tax collecting, he was concerned that at the rate of the surplus growth the debt would have been paid off entirely in 10 years creating another set of problems. Little did he know how overboard W would go.
     
  10. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    The gove doesn't have to spend it.
    It could have paid down public debt by an equal amount, but it didn't, and the total debt grew every single year
     
  11. StillBlue

    StillBlue Well-Known Member

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    It was used to pay down the external debt for two years. That's the debt to China for example but leaves overall debt unchanged. It would have been used to pay down the overall debt the next but W was elected and he used it to pretend to be santa with early Christmas presents beginning a new era of fiscal irresponsibility.
     
  12. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    Intergevernmental holdings grew more than public debt shrank, for a net increase every single year.
     
  13. StillBlue

    StillBlue Well-Known Member

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    EXACTLY, now you're getting it. Had W refrained from buying love then Clinton's last budget would have actually lowered the overall debt.

    Here's how it works there are on-budget deficits and overall deficits. Let's use round numbers.
    Case 1
    Budget is $1,000
    Spending is $1,500
    SS has a surplus of $100 (a surplus occurs when collected revenue exceeds outgo)
    The On-budget deficit is $500 with public debt (T-bills sold to China for example) will go up $400 and intergov debt goes up $100 (SS) for a net increase of $500
    Case 2
    Budget is $1,000
    Spending is $1,100
    SS surplus is $200
    On budget deficit is $100 with public debt going down $100 and intergov going up $200 (SS) for a net increase of $100
    Case 3
    Budget is $1000
    Spending is $900
    SS surplus is $200
    On budget surplus of $100 with public debt going down $300 (SS and budget surpluses) and intergov up $200 (SS) for a net drop of $100.

    Those were the three scenarios during Clinton, scenario 1 he inherited deficit spending from Reagan/Bush.
    By his 6th budget he moved into the 2nd scenario where spending was less than outgo and the public debt dropped.
    His final budget was scenario 3. Bush elected to use the budget surplus for off budget rebates rather than lower the overall debt. That's on him not Clinton, Clinton actually balanced the budget, he can't help what Bush did with it.
     
  14. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    ooh boy, one out of eight, with a massive tax increase and annual spending increases despite a supposed great economy that should have resulted in spending cuts.

    Try generating surpluses without tax increases if you want to brag
     
  15. StillBlue

    StillBlue Well-Known Member

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    And Nixon had??? 0
    Ford??? 00
    Carter??? 0
    Reagan??? 0
    Bush Sr??? 0
    Bush Jr ??? 0
    Obama??? 0

    He's earned bragging rights.
    Another tidbit. During the above era Democrat presidents consistently lowered deficit spending and Republicans increased deficit spending. If Democrats were smart they'd refer to deficit spending as deferred taxes that just might open people's eyes about Republican's claims of cutting taxes, they've done no such thing.
     
  16. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    Whoa baby.
    Minimal surplus after 8 years, with massive tax increases.
    Light years ahead of those other bureaucrats,........seriously
     
  17. StillBlue

    StillBlue Well-Known Member

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    Actually, his tax increases would be described by most as modest. Bush Sr did the heavy lifting of getting taxes back up after Reagan's excessive cuts for the wealthy. Sr. was the only Republican from the above list to not increase the deficit. He stopped the bleeding so to speak and Clinton closed the wound only to have Jr rip the stitches out.
     
  18. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

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    Almost?? No we did.
     

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