Trump under investigation for potential violations of Espionage Act, warrant reveals

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Patricio Da Silva, Aug 12, 2022.

  1. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It’s almost like some of us can read
     
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  2. ShadowX

    ShadowX Well-Known Member

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    He said the documents that were at his house were declassified. That doesn’t mean that all the documents the FBI claims they found were actually found at his house.
     
  3. ShadowX

    ShadowX Well-Known Member

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    Twice impeached that ended in what?
    Nobody cares about his associates and y’all have literally been investigating him since he took office lol

    And I’m not saying that the crime was so egregious it can’t be presented. I’m saying that y’all are conveniently coming up with a crime which you literally can’t post any evidence of lol

    As I said earlier:

    Isn’t that just super convenient? He’s got these super extra secret files that he’s stolen but we can’t show them to you or tell you what they are or how he got them. But trust us he had them.

    And we can’t tell you why he didn’t destroy or just make copies of the originals after we told him we knew he had them… but just trust us… he had them... IN A BOX MARKED CLASSIFIED just sitting at his house conveniently for us to grab. Trust us. We know it’s crazy he didn’t even try to hide them or lock them down somewhere else especially after we visited his house and saw them in person. Just left em right there in his house for us to find. Trust us.

    Lol give me a freaking break. It’s like they think the entire country is retarded and not just their base.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2022
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  4. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It ended in impeachment, what do you mean ended in what? A bipartisan coalition of US representatives impeach the president not once but twice

    plenty of people care, we know that none of you do. Like trump said, he could shoot someone in the middle of Times Square and you people would cheer

    they have already posted evidence of it, the only response to any of you have is the FBI is now colluding with the department of justice and the White House. Which you literally have no proof of. Not to mention none of you can even make up your mind if he declassified the documents, if they were really classified at all to begin with, or if the FBI planted them.

    You have zero evidence of this

    Will you support this going to trial so the jury or judge can see any evidence and render a verdict? Or let me guess, that would be biased also

    (Is anyone else seeing the trend with the defense)
     
  5. ShadowX

    ShadowX Well-Known Member

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    An impeachment is just a charge. Both charges were found as not guilty. I know you Libs are all in for the guilty until proven innocent but that’s not how this works.

    Lol like I said before what do you think happens here? How do you think this goes down? Let’s assume you can show he had them. So what? Do you think you’re going to keep him from being elected? Lol
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2022
  6. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You don’t understand what the impeachment process is then if it is that simple to you.

    As for conviction, they had the votes but held it until he was out of office. History will always show two successful impeachments followed by one hearing that was delayed so the Senate couldn't convict. Both were bipartisan

    As to the what: https://www.france24.com/en/america...rump-face-for-possessing-classified-documents
    Three federal laws, 18 USC 793, 2071 and 1519.

    Law 793 prevents unauthorised possession of national defense information, without mentioning whether the records are classified or not. It is punishable by up to 10 years in prison for each infraction.

    That law was initially passed under the 1917 Espionage Act, which predates the statutory classification system.

    The other laws, 2071 and 1519, make it illegal to conceal or destroy official US documents. They are punishable by up to three and 20 years in prison, respectively. Neither law requires the information in question to be classified.

    Federal law also makes it illegal to intentionally take classified documents to an unauthorised location, but that law was not among the three cited in the search warrant.

    Trump in 2018 signed a change in law making it a felony to mishandle classified documents and increasing the maximum prison term for individuals convicted of such from one to five years

    While I would love to see him serve the maximum time behind bars (seeing the right wing response would be glorious) he is wealthy, a politician, famous and very well connected — these people are rarely hit with what they should be. As to keeping him from being elected, he has been unable to secure a majority vote by the people in not one but two elections against very unpopular Democrats. I hope he runs with Greene as his VP and sucks up every cent he can from his supporters.
     
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  7. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Trump can't follow his own rules... sad!
     
  8. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    It's not remotely debatable, and that wasn't the only crime they were investigating. Regardless, it was illegal for him to have these documents. Period. Will he be charged? That's up to the FBI to figure out if they are willing to take that step.
     
  9. The Ant

    The Ant Well-Known Member

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    No, he’s an inveterate liar who can’t keep track of his lies, so they eventually trip him up.

    But hey, if he keeps telling you that black is white and the sun rises in the west, you do your duty…….pucker up.
     
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  10. ShadowX

    ShadowX Well-Known Member

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    That’s exactly what an impeachment is. If it weren’t you wouldn’t need the trial in the senate.

    As for the laws you sourced… it’s a shame you get your information from France24 and cnn. Here’s the ACTUAL law.

    https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=(title:18 section:793 edition:prelim) OR (granuleid:USC-prelim-title18-section793)&f=treesort&edition=prelim&num=0&jumpTo=true

    “Whoever, for the purpose of obtaining information respecting the national defense with intent or reason to believe that the information is to be used to the injury of the United States, or to the advantage of any foreign nation…”

    The rest of the code is predicated upon that statement. Now unless you can show Trump intended to use that information to injure the United States… you got nothing. A big, fat, cold glass of nothing.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2022
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  11. mdrobster

    mdrobster Well-Known Member

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    An old saying, possession is 9/10 of the law. Trump was certainly in possession of those documents, and they do not belong to him.
     
  12. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Read subsection F of 793

    Read the other the other two laws

    Read the law trump signed strengthening these penalties

    Again, will you support the legal outcome of this goes to trial, yes or no?
     
  13. Surfer Joe

    Surfer Joe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Lol…no, he intended to sell them to the Saudis and Russians and anyone else who will pay.
     
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  14. Tahuyaman

    Tahuyaman Well-Known Member

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    They are fishing.
     
  15. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    If that's what you need to tell yourself, go right ahead. They knew they were looking for Presidential documents. They asked for a warrant for Presidential documents. They walked out with Presidential documents. It takes a special kind of self-delusion to ignore those facts.
     
  16. Tahuyaman

    Tahuyaman Well-Known Member

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    No. It's an observation.
     
  17. Tahuyaman

    Tahuyaman Well-Known Member

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    All they are doing is trying to find a way to stop him from running in 2024. If they were smart, they'd stay out of his way.
     
  18. omni

    omni Well-Known Member

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    Not one person has explained why Trump is immune from the presidential records act.
     
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  19. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    And you are free to your religious beliefs.
     
  20. Tahuyaman

    Tahuyaman Well-Known Member

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    That was dumb.
     
  21. Darthcervantes

    Darthcervantes Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Have you ever heard of doing research? Presidents can de-classify anything they want.
     
  22. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    You've offered nothing for your position other than faith-based statements with no evidence to back them up. What else should I call it?
     
  23. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    There's a declassification process. Doesn't look like it was followed. And the President can't just take whatever declassified documents he wants. Those belong in the National Archives.
     
  24. LiveUninhibited

    LiveUninhibited Well-Known Member

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    Not ex-presidents.
     
  25. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well, if you had done your research, then you would know the Espionage Act, which includes 18 USC 793, is not dependent, per se, on the classification regime enacted some 30 years later.

    If you had done your research, you would know that classification is considered in the three code violations contained in the warrant but it is based on damage assessments, if it is assessed that the reckless handling of the documents pertaining to national defence would pose a grave threat to US National Security, though the classification will have a bearing (if proven) but it won't preclude a criminal charge, it all depends circumstances surrounding the removal of the documents, noting that the salient fact is that he removed documents of national defense, that doing so was reckless, that he had no authority to remove those documents as they were the property of the US Government. Even if he can prove he did declassify them, he removed the documents, the property of the Us Gov. without authorization. Declassification is NOT authorization to take documents home.

    Moreover, it's a moot point given that Trump's touting 'blanket declassification' appears to be done in retrospect, we have direct witness testimony to the contrary, not to mention there is no evidence, whatsoever, to back up Trump's classification claim of contemporaneous declassification. one cannot declassify when one is out of office, not to mention his claim of declassification makes no sense when he also suggested the FBI were 'planting evidence' also noting he has changed his tune on his reasons for absconding with the documents several times.

    https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg...f/USCODE-2009-title18-partI-chap37-sec793.pdf

    A former prosecutor for FBI cases sheds light:

     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2022

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