Truth in Sentencing to be Renamed Dishonesty

Discussion in 'Law & Justice' started by cassfox, Feb 12, 2016.

  1. cassfox

    cassfox New Member

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    Paul M. Nigl
    #280834
    Waupun Correctional Institution
    PO Box 351
    Waupun, WI 53963
    May 28, 2015

    Governor Scott Walker
    115 East
    State Capitol
    Madison, WI 53702

    Dear Governor Walker,

    I hope that this letter will reach your desk and not become one of the many which ends up in the discard or unseen pile. I have exhausted all my options for help and attention, and have finally decided at the urging of friends and family, to contact you and your staff. My issue is regarding the truth-in-sentencing model which became a legislative act prior to my incarceration.

    Eliminating the parole board was one of the biggest mistakes Wisconsin legislators made. With its elimination came the elimination for motivation to behave appropriately, change, or even succeed in the Wisconsin Department of Corrections. Inmates, for the most part, have taken a “forget it” attitude since many of us have absolutely no hope for earning release based upon good behavior or making the best choices. Yes, some of us have changed despite that act. The rest continue to be so problematic that it is costing the State of Wisconsin more to manage them than the 30,000 or so dollars it takes to keep them incarcerated each year.

    It seems that no one cares about us as human beings, which we are, Sir. So, if our humanity is not an issue, then the fiscal responsibility of Wisconsin should be. The Department of Corrections is big business for Wisconsin. Yet, indirect and direct costs accrue not only to maintain us, but also when an inmate seeks a reason to sue the State of Wisconsin in an effort to obtain freedom from an overly harsh sentence, an unfair sentence, or misconduct by those who operate the prisons. Wisconsin judges are allowed to impose sentences at will with no accountability or consistency.

    Even Caesar released one prisoner a year as an act of goodwill, and to maintain his popularity with the people he governed. Positive attention could be gained by you and your staff if you would remedy this massive incarceration problem as a pre-emptive move toward your future political goals. The money invested in maintaining a heavy prison population could be better invested in other areas in need of state funding. Those of us who are not fundamentally dangerous to society, and who have transformed ourselves should be allowed a second chance.

    Sincerely,


    Paul M. Nigl

    Update: Mr. Nigl's new address is: Paul M. Nigl #280834, Redgranite Correctional Institution, PO Box 925, Redgranite, WI 54970-0925
     
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  2. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Thank you for this message Cassfox!

    I admire how Paul is giving Governor Walker a logical reason to rethink this policy. Governor Scott Walker does seem very interested in saving the taxpayers money so.......... by illustrating how giving inmates some hope he could actually decrease inmate management costs is a good reason for Governor Walker to act on this.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Walker
     
  3. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Unconvincing.

    Why should the possibility of parole be the only motivation for good behavior? If you have to be given a reward for good behavior, I'm not sure I want you out on the streets anyway.

    He says no one cares about them as human beings, but I assume they are housed, clothed, fed, and given medical attention.

    When they complete their sentences, they'll be released. That's the second chance.
     
  4. cassfox

    cassfox New Member

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    Your reply, Seth, is from a viewpoint of ignorance. Having worked in the prison system of Wisconsin and having interacted closely with inmates Mr. Nigl is completely accurate. Also, whether or not you are convinced, Mr. Nigl is the one who knows what motivates an incarcerated man. His letter includes statements made by the majority of inmates. Food, clothing, and housing become meaningless in the violent environment of a prison. As a taxpayer, I would like my investment to make a greater difference and to not only benefit the fiscal life of my state, but also humanity, which you apparently are unable to understand.

     
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  5. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Cassfox, I want three things from the prison system. (1) I want prisoners treated humanely. (2) I want society protected. I want the offenders locked up, and I want prison sentences to act as a deterrent. (3) And I want prisoners to leave prison and not re-offend.

    Take a look at this chart:

    http://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_age.jsp

    What you're going to see is that it is young men who offend and re-offend. As men get older, they are released from prison, and they don't come back. That is not my opinion; that is a verifiable fact born out by these statistics. On this next link are a graph and a chart showing recidivism rates by age. You will see that the rate is predictably highest at the lower ages and lowest at the higher ages.

    http://www.dc.state.fl.us/pub/recidivism/2001/factors.html#Ccage

    What this tells us is that, if we want to protect society from criminals, and if we want to reduce recidivism, long sentences succeed at accomplishing those goals. Again, that is not my opinion. Those are facts born out by these statistics.

    We may also use the inverse statistics to arrive at some conclusions:

    The shorter the sentence, the less society is protected, and the more likely the prisoner is going to re-offend and be returned to prison. You talked about costs. Well how costly is it to have society victimized again by the same criminal? How costly is it to re-investigate their crimes, re-arrest them, and re-try them? And what about the cost in human misery these repeat offenders inflict on law-abiding society?

    When I hear a prisoner saying, "If you don't let me out, I'm going to misbehave," I am more determined to keep them in prison. These are not the words of someone who has learned his lesson; it is a threat. I am not interested in releasing prisoners who are still threatening us.
     
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  6. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  7. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Thank you for good statistics on how to effectively protect the public but actually Paul is a Christian who continually reaches out to other inmates about his faith. He was making an observation about the prison population in general......... not about his own attitude! But I do thank you for taking a good look at and considering his case!
     
  8. cassfox

    cassfox New Member

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    Lengthy prison sentences are not the answer, or they would work. Keeping men and women in prison without rehabilitation or intense treatment does nothing for them. They are released into communities with no work skills, no role models other than those from the prison environment, no money, no stable place to live, and often times no friends or family.

    Paul Nigl is one in a million because he has a work ethic and skill to be successful when released. The statistics you site are from one study, but studies performed worldwide do not support the theory that long prison sentences alone solve a problem.
     
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  9. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Wow!!!!!!!!!

    My apologies for perhaps, in a sense somewhat derailing your discussion Cassfox..... but I just have to put a video in front of you and present you with a possible method of altering the entire formula...… fast?!?!

    For starters..... please read about "Ruby."

    http://www.politicalforum.com/creative-corner/444300-ruby.html

    ....................

    I love the idea of presenting printed copies of posts by a man on this forum......… and put those printouts in front of men and women in prison........ and get them to respond to what he writes........... I believe that thousands and even tens of thousands of inmates could rise up and up and up and up........ just by focusing their attention on somebody........ who is very flawed........... but in my opinion......… he is playing around in the same league with King David and King Solomon........ and by looking at him...… and by trying to be a little bit more like him....... many inmates could break out of the psychological chains that hold then back.

    I don't lightly suggest to somebody that I want to attempt to set them up for a campaign to become President of the United States but...........

    http://www.politicalforum.com/opini...-us-set-him-up-office-potus-early-2016-a.html

    (Note.... this man would prefer for a number of reasons that we NOT reply to this discussion)!

    ............…
    Cassfox..... remember the movie Spartacus with the soldiers all saying......"I'm Spartacus"...… "No, I'm Spartacus!"...… "No I am..... I am the real Spartacus!"

    Well........... I happen to know of a writer...… who is so interesting..... and so astonishingly well informed.......... who has such amazing insight on so many topics....... that he would be perfect as the "Ghost" version of...… the new...."Artistic Director of the NSA - CIA."

    … I already have a team in place to help him out........

    Here is the video that I need for you to see..... especially from the 17 minute mark:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87l4512Q4rY
     
  10. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Brinny is praying for you Cassfox........... expect major things to happen........ think in terms of dominos falling ..... and fast!

    http://www.christianforums.com/thre...-new-orleans-and.7727141/page-2#post-69259578
     
  11. cassfox

    cassfox New Member

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    Thank Brinny for me!
     
  12. cassfox

    cassfox New Member

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    Dennis,
    Thank you for your insightful response. It's ignorance like that in the above response that keeps our prisons overflowing. Paul was NOT saying, if you don't let me out I'm going to misbehave. What utter nonsense! As a behavior specialist I know that rewards work and punishment does not. So, if we reward misbehavior it increases. When there are no rewards for good behavior, and you live in a 3 x 6 room 23 hours a day, you lose hope, and you don't care if you behave well or not. Look at concentrations camps and statistics about slavery. The thought processes and behavior of those individuals is much like that of incarcerated men. At least 1/3 of men incarcerated in Wisconsin are non-violent offenders and don't need to be held in prison for a lifetime.

     
  13. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Seth Bullock, I am a Canadian who has campaigned for public office as an independent three times already. I joined the Liberal Party in 2009 but I left in December of 2015. I joined Canada Conservative Party in January of 2016 and these statistics you gave on how young prisoners if released...… tend strongly to reoffend could well be very useful to me in the future.

    The Conservative Party that I have joined prides itself in favoring policies that tend to be tougher on crime but I have something in mind that could turn into a way of rewarding some prisoners for their good behavior. Please notice post #4 here:


    http://www.politicalforum.com/canada/444761-honorable-tom-mulcair-challenge-offer-conservative.html

    Honorable Tom Mulcair, a challenge and an offer from a Conservative.

    ...................


    In my opinion........if an inmate was willing to do volunteerism in some form....... .and if the payment for their efforts were to be given to a list of qualified charitable organizations.......... this could give inmates a greater sense of purpose, self esteem and accomplishment.

    For whatever psychological or spiritual reasons it does occur...… I found it fascinating that such a high percentage of the eight million North American near death experiencers interviewed....... reported being asked a question along the line of......"what did you do with your life that you can show me" by the being of light who reviewed their lives with them?

    All of us, deep down, want to do something with our lives that matters in the larger scheme of things.

    Ten USA states are discussing the minting of state coins and they are encouraging local governments and groups of concerned citizens to initiate LETS groups similar to the citizens group that has initiated The Ithaca Hour in New York.


    http://money.cnn.com/2012/01/17/pf/local_currency/index.htm?iid=F_Jump

     
  14. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Cost is largely the reason parole was abolished in the first place in many states. There were several court cases that expanded inmates rights in relation to parole hearings which would have been logistically and financially difficult for states to comply with--basically turning them into mandatory resentencings--so states abolished them rather than absorb the huge costs that would have come with the expanding procedural requirements. There is no right to parole, but if your state does have it, then you have to be willing to chunk out wads of cash just to have enough staff to allow each inmate time to babble on endlessly about how they were wrongly convicted so they don't need to change to qualify for parole., or how it was all their daddy's fault, etc.
     
  15. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I have something in mind that could potentially reduce at least some of the costs.

    Once some form of "Volunteerism Hour" became stable and valuable enough that it was taken seriously pretty much all across the USA and Canada...… large legal firms could begin to accept them for at least some of their members....... at least some of the time????!

    I remember my Psychology 240 professor mentioning that somewhere around 95% of the population will often be willing to participate in a study if they feel that it has genuine scientific value.

    Perhaps some studies could be organized to measure the feelings of accomplishment by non-violent inmates who are involved in some form of volunteerism?

    Some prison ministries could perhaps assist to stabilize the value of some form of "Volunteerism Hour?"

    http://www.politicalforum.com/relig...ations-should-print-their-own-currencies.html

    Large churches in democratic nations should print their own currencies.
     
  16. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I absolutely agree with you Cassfox that there must be some better way of doing things for that one third of offenders who are non-violent!

    Intuitively...… I tend strongly to agree with you that prison is not the best place for them to be!
     
  17. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I appreciate your willingness to look for a solution, but that is probably not realistic since a great many prisons are in fairly rural areas in which you would never get that level of volunteerism from the bar associations. That, however, isn't the state's problem. The problem is that if parole boards have to give every single inmate a full hearing, then that would consume a massive amount of staff time from the panelists, guards, etc being permanently sitting 24/7 in parole hearings. Our local prison houses I think around 4500 inmates. If you gave every one of them even a half hour, that would be like 15K-20K hours of staff time easily just on one prison. My state has a lot of prisons. They are not allowed to just say, okay "you have beat up inmates and guards. Denied" to cut through the case load by having 2 minute hearings on people who would never get parole even if you gave them the best lawyer in the country and a week to argue their case. From what I have been told, our state's prison system is even having trouble staffing the post-prison involuntary commitment hearings for sex offenders (once you serve your time on a sex offense, they lock you up in the state mental hospital if they think you are at risk to re-offend) which require full hearings and expert witnesses and the like.

    The more realistic option is to come up with some creative sentencing alternatives I think other than fines and/or freedom that avoid such a huge number of inmates to begin with but even I am not sure what I think those could/should be.
     
  18. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Thank you for the excellent update on Paul's case.


    http://www.politicalforum.com/middle-east/484336-broken-justice.html

    Broken Justice


     
  19. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I personally think that long sentences are logical in the case of violent offenders who are likely to kill or maim others again.

    Certainly not for a car accident where it is probable that the nurses were tired and the driver in the other car may have fallen asleep at the wheel. I did night shifts for about four years and on my way home in the morning there was a real danger of me falling asleep during that 70 km / 45 mile drive home.
     

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