Truthers and US government

Discussion in '9/11' started by AlpinLuke, May 29, 2014.

  1. AlpinLuke

    AlpinLuke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2014
    Messages:
    5,684
    Likes Received:
    199
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Male
    Let's try a classic "counter conspiracy".

    Usually I tend to consider both the faces of a medal. So, what it the so called "truthers" are actually individuals who receive suggestions from government environment to generate disinformation?

    Why should the government use them? [Damaging government image itself ...]

    Simple: to generate the counter reaction. And since not rarely the arguments of the truthers make them look like loonies, doing this the government puts them under a bad light, diminishing their credibility.

    This kind of disinformation wouldn't be new for me: when I was around 20 I was ufologist and it was a common persuasion that some governments created fake UFO reports and events to spread disinformation about the phenomenon.
     
  2. Hannibal

    Hannibal New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    10,624
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I think it's very clear that there are posters who make the rounds to try and discredit the (now long defunct) 'truth movement'. The only true remnants of said movement are the snake oil salesmen and the lackeys that still shovel money their way. They don't rally, they don't make public appearances of any note, they don't challenge the engineering community in the real world.

    The disinformation troop, led by their Boss and his sock puppets are generally recognized by hyper-ridiculous claims: no planes, no victims, etc.

    I don't believe the government has anything to do with it, however. More likely just bored high school students or second-shifters, lonely and looking for shocked reactions. They are pretty amusing, don't you think?
     
  3. NightSwimmer

    NightSwimmer New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2013
    Messages:
    2,548
    Likes Received:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    0

    Wasn't that a South Park episode?
     
  4. AlpinLuke

    AlpinLuke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2014
    Messages:
    5,684
    Likes Received:
    199
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Male
    May be you're right, in Italy we haven't seen all the seasons of South Park ...:gallery:
     
  5. genericBob

    genericBob New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2014
    Messages:
    2,831
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Think about this, the perpetrators of the 9/11/2001
    attack, want to stir the pot, because if America
    has "civil unrest" or an internal war, it will serve
    to diminish the surplus population + have the added
    benefit of giving our "leaders" an excuse to declare
    martial law and implement a totalitarian state.
    Remember, Big Brother is watching!
     
  6. Scott

    Scott Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2008
    Messages:
    2,833
    Likes Received:
    167
    Trophy Points:
    63
    The best way to hurt a theory is to defend it with wrong arguments. Only infiltrator shills maintain there were no planes or no victims. Real truthers believe there were victims and that robot planes hit the towers.

    "provocateurs,shills and disinfo agents"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYedTmaHt1A
    (7:20 time mark)


    The proof that 9/11 was an inside job is crushing.
    http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=348380&p=1063729867#post1063729867
     
  7. genericBob

    genericBob New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2014
    Messages:
    2,831
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    So YOU personally actually buy it
    that is you believe the faked video
    of the alleged "FLT175" crashing into the South wall of the South Tower,
    is actually a real airliner, or aircraft of some sort crashing into the tower?
     
  8. Scott

    Scott Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2008
    Messages:
    2,833
    Likes Received:
    167
    Trophy Points:
    63
    That's right. You're trying to discredit the truth movement by defending it with a wrong argument that you yourself know is wrong.

    9/11: The Absurdity of the No-Planes-in-New York Theory
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gV4rvTxcMSY

    92 views clockwise attacking WTC 2 (no planes theory debunked)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wtu9r_v-XHE

    THE INFOWARRIOR with Jason Bermas (HD) No Planes Theory on 9/11 is Total BS!!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBMOxLkhilU
     
  9. psikeyhackr

    psikeyhackr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2009
    Messages:
    1,083
    Likes Received:
    40
    Trophy Points:
    48
    The Laws of Physics do not give a damn about any government or any conspiracy.

    Do the physics. Understand the physics well enough to know what data is necessary to do the physics. What do you need to know about skyscrapers just to comprehend what they have to do to hold themselves up and withstand the wind?

    psik
     
  10. AlpinLuke

    AlpinLuke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2014
    Messages:
    5,684
    Likes Received:
    199
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Male
    Basic exercise ... a twin tower had a facade surface of about [let's not be pedant ...]

    1,668,000mq

    In case of a strong wind at 50 km/h ... which was the wind pressure that a facade had to stand?

    Had to stand, since the skyscrapers have projected to be within certain limits "flexible". In case of wind a skyscraper oscillates, slowly. So high skyscrapers can record oscillations above a meter [talking about the last floors].
     
  11. Gamolon

    Gamolon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2013
    Messages:
    2,385
    Likes Received:
    88
    Trophy Points:
    48
    :roll:

    How ironic...
     
  12. psikeyhackr

    psikeyhackr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2009
    Messages:
    1,083
    Likes Received:
    40
    Trophy Points:
    48
    I guess you can do the conservation of momentum calculations on an impact without knowing the masses involved.

    So we have videos of skyscrapers coming down level by level without knowing the tons of steel and tons of concrete on each level. Which engineering school has been asking about that?

    Robots on Mars and can't settle skyscraper collapses in 12 years.

    The irony of Curiosity. Or is it lack thereof?

    psik
     
  13. LoneStrSt8

    LoneStrSt8 New Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2011
    Messages:
    9,012
    Likes Received:
    32
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Why,again,would they want or need to know?
     
  14. Jango

    Jango New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2012
    Messages:
    2,683
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I don't know if foreign governments have explicitly interacted with some of the believers in the conspiracy, but if we take the Cold War as an example, the Soviet Union distributed a tremendous amount of disinformation, like:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitrokhin_Archive#Disinformation_campaign_against_the_United_States

    I can't think of a logical reason why the U.S. government would purposely spread false information about 9/11 to Americans, even if it was to discredit the conspiracy & the conspiracy theorists themselves. 1) Not everyone falls for the fringe theories I.E. no planes, nuclear devices, directed energy weapons, 2) there are already enough people that believe 9/11 hasn't been sufficiently addressed, explained fully or that the government is hiding something embarrassing or damning, 3) if people have an ounce of curiosity in their being & an Internet connection, controversial information or previously unknown information leads to asking Google a lot of questions which could result in the first two things I listed.

    The government isn't in power to undermine its credibility or authority - that's how coups and revolutions start. They remain in power by maintaining order & the status quo, among other things. So instead of planting disinformation about 9/11, the government would do damage control: tell the story that has been told by the government by using government sources/officials and anyone that disagrees or questions that narrative is a conspiracy theorist, insane, paranoid, misguided, delusional, etc.
     
  15. l4zarus

    l4zarus Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2012
    Messages:
    886
    Likes Received:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    18
    I almost completely agree with Hannibal.

    While I also don't think the "gubmint" has anything to do with it, I don't think it's bored teenagers either. Look at Gage and Steven Jones. Teenagers don't make up the bulk of their donors that keep them in the snake-oil business. [Edit: I see Hannibal made the comment about teens specifically as forum posters, not organizers or donors. This is more likely, but unless the family is on board with this craziness, I don't see a teen compulsively coming back with multiple socks over months and years. IMHO that points to an adult immersed in conspiracy culture.]

    There's ample evidence, at the height of the "truth" movement [2004-2008ish] of a Libertarian/Ron Paul overlap in conspiracy propaganda. And it's already been pointed out that many "leaders" of the so called movement have affiliation or associations with Anti-Semites. So my guess is trutherism was a spinoff of the Patriot/'Freedom From Fascism" crowd. Or at least they embraced it so much the line had been blurred by 2008. This looks like a complex political based fraud. Luckily it looks like it's dying out.


    Want some hard core tin foil? The Southern Poverty Law Center has this gem:

    "From there, it got weirder still. In a question-and-answer period following the speeches, Bollyn suggested that the Trade Center towers might have been zapped with a "disintegration ray." The fine dust would be the logical outcome of such a ray.

    Partin chimed in, saying it actually would have taken two disintegration rays to do the job.

    Arizona Reform Party official Russ Willenburg said he had personally surveyed the Pentagon after Sept. 11, and there was no evidence that any plane had crashed there — he could find no metal with the airline's markings on it."


    These are the whacked out theories we're familiar with, but this was 2002, years before Judy Wood "discovered" space beams or Webfairy "discovered" no planes. Think about it.
     
  16. n0spam

    n0spam New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2014
    Messages:
    485
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    "fringe theories I.E. no planes"

    Thanks a lot!

    fringe theories .......

    what constitutes "fringe" ?
     
  17. LoneStrSt8

    LoneStrSt8 New Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2011
    Messages:
    9,012
    Likes Received:
    32
    Trophy Points:
    0
    'No planes'
     
  18. Libertarianforlife

    Libertarianforlife Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2013
    Messages:
    1,390
    Likes Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    48
    The part I love most about the truthers is when they make up some wild ass claim and then say, "Well show me proof that didn't happen!" LOL That's not how it works, moron.
     
  19. l4zarus

    l4zarus Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2012
    Messages:
    886
    Likes Received:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    18
    If I was in your shoes I'd be less concerned with someone dismissing you crazy theory and more concerned your crazy theory was invented by racists in a private conference long before the "Truth Movement" as we know it existed.

    Given most of even the most annoying "truthers" are not racists, some sort of bait and switch happened. We may never know the details.

    But now you're informed, you can take a step back and question whether you want to endorse theories of any kind invented by the likes of Christopher Bollyn.
     
  20. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Messages:
    83,211
    Likes Received:
    9,578
    Trophy Points:
    113
    honestly, I think Truthers all work for the US Govt., as they divert attention away from real scandals like Abu Graib and other things.
     
  21. l4zarus

    l4zarus Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2012
    Messages:
    886
    Likes Received:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Don't get them started! :omg:

    Admittedly that conspiracy would make a lot more sense than "da Joos did it". But alas, much like an "Inside Job", there is no evidence for it.
     
  22. n0spam

    n0spam New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2014
    Messages:
    485
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    All "truthers" do not agree ( on much of anything ) there are the no-planes type
    and other factions that are very different from one-another, any opinion by Mr. Bollyn
    may or may not be in alignment with any other given "truther" and its really irrelevant.
    Don't tar us all with the same brush, I am very different from the AE911truth types
    because I will openly discuss the no-planes angle and others in the so-called movement
    may believe that the no-planes argument is a sign of insanity. oh well, to each his own.
     
  23. Gamolon

    Gamolon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2013
    Messages:
    2,385
    Likes Received:
    88
    Trophy Points:
    48
    And yet I don't see you tearing up Richard Gage and his cult like you do the "official story". Why is that n0spam? Is it because as long as he and his cult are against the government in some capacity and that they hold the same belief that you do, that the government was complicit in 9/11 even though he's wrong, that you'll leave him alone?

    United on all fronts, right n0spam? Even if he's lying through his teeth?
     
  24. Gamolon

    Gamolon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2013
    Messages:
    2,385
    Likes Received:
    88
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Have a look at this n0spam.

    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/05/...ike-brochure-for-911-memorial-museum-opening/

    Sickening, isn't it?

    You think this type of sick garbage is enough for you to get up on your forum soapbox here and preach about the "truth" regarding it using the same fervor and disbelief as you do about the "official story"?

    What say you truth seeker?
     
  25. n0spam

    n0spam New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2014
    Messages:
    485
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Like I said, "truthers" do not all agree,
    with an exception and that is the "truthers"
    do NOT believe the crap being promoted by the propaganda machine.
    The "news" lies! never forget that.

    I will not raise an objection strictly on tactics, AE911TRUTH has as much right
    to distribute their material as any other citizen around here.

    Not to mention that you delight in slamming tactics, because you can't rebut the message.
     

Share This Page