Try to convince me that President Trump is not right about Nato

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by logical1, Jul 13, 2018.

  1. Daggdag

    Daggdag Well-Known Member

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    You know how you lower out NATO contributions? You cut our inefficient, bloated defense budget. What we pay to NATO is directly based on our annual defense budget. Maybe if we didn't give multi-billion dollar subsidies to hundreds of already profitable defense contractors every year we wouldn't be paying as much for NATO.
     
  2. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I've often posed the question 'How do you get rich beyond your wildest dreams?' Answer: Get yourself a government contract and you'll be showered with tax dollars/pounds until you're sick of the sight of so much money.
     
  3. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Pre-World War I the American public was near unanimously opposed to interfering in Europe. It's time to return to that proud tradition.

    1. Withdraw from the current role as world hegemon.
    2. Withdraw from NATO
    3. Withdraw from the UN
    4. Unilaterally withdraw from all multilateral treaties
    5. Leave Europe to their fate. If Russia/China takes over Europe and threatens the US, arm every man, woman and child and dare them to try an invasion.

    Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none.
     
  4. US Conservative

    US Conservative Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I wasn't alive 4 decades ago.

    But you are correct.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2018
  5. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I have no idea how that "is coming around". Direct funding does not include the cost of stationing troops in Europe which is most of the cost of our 3.6% of GDP.
    Probably less than what Europe is contributing. I still believe our military is underfunded for the missions they have been tasked to perform.
     
  6. TomFitz

    TomFitz Well-Known Member

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    Of all your parochial and largely baseless "reason", number one is the only one with any validity.

    But number 7 deserves some consideration.

    China IS great, and it is on the ascent, with a clear roadmap to expanding its power.

    This is in sharp contrast to the United States, whose leader is angrily alienating our allies, undermining agreements, and retreating wholesale from the role of world leader, and has no apparent plan or long term goal.

    The Chinese are quite another thing altogether. They have maneuvered stealthily to build trade and influential presences in much of the developing world.

    One Belt, One Road is real, and it is growing in strategic importance on a daily basis. It is a real alternative to US global leadership.

    And while many countries do not trust China, the unstable antic of the US President and the American tendancy to rush back and forth between jingoism,global leadership and belligerent isolationism gives them good reason to see the Chinese when they come to call.

    Trump's idiotic decision to abandon the Trans Pacific Partnership was a huge foreign policy victory for Bejing. One that the Chinese didn't have to lift a finger to achieve. Trump just gave it away.

    Similarly, the American decision to become the pariah nation on matters of global warming and alternative energy have further left the US sitting in the corner alone.

    And the trade wars drive still more wedges.

    Trump has been making a fool of himself and his country on a global scale this year. Directly insulting his host at the G-7 Summit, threatening the other members. And then repeating his dismal performance at the NATO summit just last week. On Thursday, he condemned the British Prime Minister just in time for her to find out about it as they sat down to dinner.

    Meanwhile, China continues its steady expansion with the goal of setting up a global transportation network that will link the world's second largest economy (China) with the third (the EU).

    As Trump struts and bellows and appears to have no vision of any sort other than doing what will entertain his Fox audience, our rivals are talking the spoils of world leadership and leaving us behind.

    Trump has managed to make a complete fool of himself on the world stage this year as well.
     
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  7. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    BS.
    https://www.pri.org/stories/2017-08...sia-pacific-heres-what-you-need-know-about-it
     
  8. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Rather than just BS, show me where I am wrong.
     
  9. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    It's true that NATO countries are increasing their defense spending, but it has little to do with Trump. In fact, the changes have been in the works for years.

    The big commitment was made in 2014, when all members that were spending less than 2% of GDP on defense promised to move toward the official target.


    "All allies made a pledge ... to stop the cuts in defense spending, and to gradually increase spending towards the goal of 2% of GDP within a decade," a NATO official said Wednesday.

    https://money.cnn.com/2017/03/01/news/nato-spending-donald-trump/index.html
     
  10. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    It's true that NATO countries are increasing their defense spending, but it has little to do with Trump. In fact, the changes have been in the works for years.

    The big commitment was made in 2014, when all members that were spending less than 2% of GDP on defense promised to move toward the official target.


    "All allies made a pledge ... to stop the cuts in defense spending, and to gradually increase spending towards the goal of 2% of GDP within a decade," a NATO official said Wednesday.

    https://money.cnn.com/2017/03/01/news/nato-spending-donald-trump/index.html
     
  11. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    It's true that NATO countries are increasing their defense spending, but it has little to do with Trump. In fact, the changes have been in the works for years.

    The big commitment was made in 2014, when all members that were spending less than 2% of GDP on defense promised to move toward the official target.


    "All allies made a pledge ... to stop the cuts in defense spending, and to gradually increase spending towards the goal of 2% of GDP within a decade," a NATO official said Wednesday.

    https://money.cnn.com/2017/03/01/news/nato-spending-donald-trump/index.html
     
  12. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    It's true that NATO countries are increasing their defense spending, but it has little to do with Trump. In fact, the changes have been in the works for years.

    The big commitment was made in 2014, when all members that were spending less than 2% of GDP on defense promised to move toward the official target.


    "All allies made a pledge ... to stop the cuts in defense spending, and to gradually increase spending towards the goal of 2% of GDP within a decade," a NATO official said Wednesday.

    https://money.cnn.com/2017/03/01/news/nato-spending-donald-trump/index.html
     
  13. MVictorP

    MVictorP Well-Known Member

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    Oh, but I won't. Fck NATO.
     
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  14. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Unless someone is comfortable with Russia taking whatever they want and feel Georgia/Crimea were fair game they will support a strong NATO.
     
  15. MVictorP

    MVictorP Well-Known Member

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    In the same post you say that NATO is now useless, and that the other nations are not paying enough into it.

    Truth is, NATO serves the needs of the Military Industrial Complex, and little more. Furthermore, it is also (as of now) a de-stabilizing force that seeks a way to justify its costly existance by restarting a war with Russia.

    Fck Nato.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2018
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  16. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    However, ,most have not met that goal and we are spending much more than the 2%.
     
  17. Russell Hellein

    Russell Hellein Well-Known Member

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    Crimea is occupied by Russians who don't want to be part of the Ukraine. After the coup there which overthrew the freely elected president they chose to leave. In Georgia Russians chose to leave that country and were attacked by the Georgian government. How is that different than the Ukraine leaving the Soviet Union? Did you oppose that?
     
  18. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Its all been settled and takes effect 2024.. Trump doesn't know and per usual he's trying to take credit for Obama's work.
     
  19. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    2024 is six years from now. They have been delinquent for however long Clinton, Bush and Obama said they were not paying their share. So what does that all add up to? Twenty Five years or more? Personally, I don't give a crap who is responsible for getting them to pay. I will believe it when I see it.
     
  20. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Read the link I posted.
     
  21. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I did. I will believe it when I see it. The US has been complaining about NATO spending long before 2014.
     
  22. TomFitz

    TomFitz Well-Known Member

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    That's ridiculous, and obviously completely false!

    What actions has NATO taken to "destabilize" thing, and what evidence can you cite that they are seeing " a way to justify its costly existance by restarting a war with Russia"?

    This, I gotta see!
     
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  23. MVictorP

    MVictorP Well-Known Member

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