Turkey's Actions Towards French Ship Causing Rift In Nato

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Jeannette, Jun 30, 2020 at 3:56 PM.

  1. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Donor

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    France tried to uphold the UN embargo on arm shipments to Libya by asking to board a ship being escorted by the Turkish navy. The Turkish war ships became aggressive, and so the Admiral of the Italian ship told the French to leave.

    Of course the French are furious.

    France’s defense ministry on June 17th accused a Turkish naval vessel of harassing one of its ships in the Mediterranean, saying its ship was trying to uphold the UN’s arms embargo to Libya, and implying therefore that Turkey was trying to enable the delivery of weapons to the Tripoli-based government. France described the ship’s actions as “extremely aggressive” and “unacceptable by an ally against a NATO ship.”

    Both countries are members of NATO, while Turkey has found itself at odds with NATO on numerous questions in recent years, and France meanwhile pushes for the formation of a unitary EU military.

    https://www.fort-russ.com/2020/06/p...rkish-naval-aggression-against-french-vessel/
     
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  2. Rugglestx

    Rugglestx Well-Known Member

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    The EU wants to destroy the nationality of it's member nations. Thankfully the U.K. opted out.

    But hey EU, if you form your own military do not let the French take the lead....they do not have the best record in military matters in the last 200 + years.
     
  3. scarlet witch

    scarlet witch Well-Known Member Donor

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    Well clearly the vessel was loaded up to its armpits with weapons... maybe the French should think about what happens when they find one loaded with weapons...sounds to me like they've been searching and coming up empty until now
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2020 at 8:56 PM
  4. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Donor

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    The reason the ships were there were to enforce the embargo on arms. The French tried to do their job, but they were faced with guns by a Nato member. Anyway the situation is serious, and Turkey is getting out of hand. No one knows how to stop them.
     
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  5. HurricaneDitka

    HurricaneDitka Well-Known Member

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    We all know how to stop them, we just lack the will to do it. Kind of like the rioters currently destroying property in several American cities.
     
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  6. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Turkey's Actions Towards French Ship Causing Rift In Nato

    NATO has become a solution looking for a problem.
     
  7. zer0lis

    zer0lis Active Member

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    Out of 168 battles fought since 387 BC, they have won 109, lost 49 and drawn 10", making France the most successful military power in European history and therefore in the world—in terms of number of fought and won.
     
  8. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    The French should have put the Turks to the fishes and issue is solved ... This Bastard Erdogan is one of the biggest supporters of terrorist and I still wonder why NATO does not kick out this bastard out of NATO.

    But when even the coward Trump was afraid when Erdogan threat the US with an Ottoman slap in the face if the US back the YPG against criminal Turkish invasion into Northern Syria ... well ... what shall France do, eh?

    And honestly:

    My personal opinion is since Trump sits in White House with his bombardment of lies and blackmailing against my country, that my country should leave NATO and kick out all US troops from our soil ... we still laugh about his announced reduction of 9,500 troops because we are so evil ... ROFL!
    A cooperation as it still exists with France, BE-NE-LUX and Danmark as then alliance without NATO cap above is far better ... and then we can also start better relations to Russia.
     
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  9. Monash

    Monash Well-Known Member

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    "France tried to uphold the UN embargo on arm shipments to Libya by asking to board a ship being escorted by the Turkish navy. The Turkish war ships became aggressive, and so the Admiral of the Italian ship told the French to leave."

    I assume you are trying to say it was a joint Italian/French naval force that approached the vessel in question? And that an Italian Officer was in overall command at that particular time.

    If this was the case then (absent any other information) I assume the Italian officer decided that an incident with the escorting Turkish ship wasn't worth the effort in terms of potential political ramifications. Given the larger political picture unfolding in that region at the moment, so what? Anyone see the French lodging diplomatic protests with Italy - answer no.

    Result? - next time that or another NATO task force sails and a French commander is in charge he/she gets to make the decision.

    Of course if the Russian Navy was conducting a similar exercise with its allies in the region (the Syrians) then presumably a Syrian Admiral in his fishing boat would give directions to the Russian vessel involved. I say vessel rather than vessels because Russia would struggle to keep more than one ship on station in the Med at a time 24/7 for more than a month at a time.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2020 at 7:43 AM
  10. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Let me see if I understand this. Because you hate Trump you favor Germany leaving NATO. I guess that means that, if there were some other President were in office German membership makes sense to you. Frankly, the logic in that escapes me. I do agree that you need a great relationship with Russia. Your fuel source depends on it. I also agree that we should remove U.S. troops from Germany.
     
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  11. Rugglestx

    Rugglestx Well-Known Member

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    1. I said last 200 years, and you go back to 387 BC....
    2, They lost the important ones....from Blenheim and The Plains Of Abraham to Dien Bien Phu….
    3. The French military has not been a military power since Napoleon decided he wanted to see Moscow
    4. 6 weeks in 1940 and they folded and capitulated….6 weeks....

    "I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me.” ― General George S. Patton
     
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  12. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    Not correct ...

    The right thing is that I hate Donald Trump ... and I've hated the bastard for around 20 years because for me it has been just human scum for so long. I don't want to go into details now, for example keyword SoHo Hotel, because of course some will call ... even if proven fact ... everything bad fake news against Trump again ...

    The reason why I am now advocating leaving NATO is that Donald Trump has robbed me of the last remnant of positive illusions about the United States.
    If Trump is elected again, the horror will continue, but even if not ... there can always be an equally bad president in the future who only spreads lies, threatens and blackmailed us and others, agreements and contracts that do not suit him simply declared invalid and and and ... plus many Americans who also agree with this bastard and cheer him ... as well give a damn about real facts about.

    And no ... no fuel ... Northstream is all about liquid natural gas. And even that doesn't really make us totally dependent on Russia, as the idiot in White House claims. But even if ... sorry ... that's our business and it's none of your business! You just have to accept that and Basta!

    And about US troops ... they do nearly nothing or us or for NATO in Europe ... the bases are nearly only used for own US worldwide intrests which have nothing to do with us or Europe ... aside point that we pay not only a few Euro for them too.

    And this is the realty and fact behind the story of Trumps threat / announcement to reduce for 9,500 soldiers in Germany ... so now any clue why we simply laugh about him for this and say "OK, and when doe sthe rest go"? ;-)
     
  13. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Sorry you lost your positive illusions. If I were religious I would say a prayer for you.
     
  14. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    No worries ... I am not sad or so ... only angry ... and about prayer it would have no sense, because I am convinced atheist and depending to statement of some Christians to me, if I die I can push the button Basement in elevator, because no way that I can push upstairs for heaven . :)
     
  15. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Donor

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    From what I gather, there were 3 Nato ships to enforce the embargo; French, Italian and Greek. The others left and the Greek ship was left alone - and if they did anything, it would have given the Turks the excuse they needed to start a war.

    France's anger is with Nato. They want Turkey out, and or to form a European military.

    A person would be a fool to challenge the Russians in anything, and Erdogan is no fool. His PM Devotoglu challenged the Russians once, and he was ousted fast together with an apology from Erdogan.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2020 at 11:59 AM
  16. HurricaneDitka

    HurricaneDitka Well-Known Member

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    Sounds good to me. Just don't call us if you end up like Ukraine.
     
  17. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Donor

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    I think it's because Turkey has the largest army in Nato, and because Poland and the Baltic nations hate Russia. Poland still has dreams of grabbing part of Russia, so it can rebuild its former Polish/Lithuanian Empire. And the other Baltic nations fear they're going to lose the Russians lands they occupy because they have the Russians there living in an apartheid condition.

    The Turks together with the US, Saudi Arabia, Britain, France, Israel, and Jordon wanted to topple Assad and break the country into parts and weaken it like they did Yugoslavia. This is why Russia got involved.

    They all supported ISIS whenever it was convenient to do so, even though it was imposing sharia law and committing genocide towards Christians and others.

    Should have been done a long time ago.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2020 at 1:03 PM
  18. Monash

    Monash Well-Known Member

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    The above would suggest Frances 'anger' is with Turkey not NATO directly. A lot of NATO members are displeased with Turkey or more precisely Erdogan and his policies. For the moment there's no broad agreement on expelling the Turks but that said the main thing keeping them 'in' the NATO club is probably the fear that expulsion might push Ergodan (if not Turkish voters into Putin's loving arms). So nothing happens.

    A greater threat is if the EU gets finally tired of his antics. True Erdogan can threaten retaliation by opening the floodgates for Syrian refuges into Europe if the start putting heavy sanctions in place but the EU can literally cut the balls off Turkey's export economy. About half their export income and 2/3 of their foreign investment comes from EU member states. If those trade flows were ever seriously threatened the Turks would kick him out of office in a shot.

    Hardly foolish. The days are long gone where Russia has the convention forces needed to occupy any of the major border states e.g Turkey, Ukraine, Turkey etc in depth for long periods of time. The same of course applies in reverse. Even with US support NATO doesn't have the capacity to occupy large swaths of Russian territory for any length of time either.

    The chief difference of course being that NATO wouldn't want to even if it could while Russia under Putin would like to but cant.

    So these days all he can do is run disinformation campaigns, threaten to cut off gas supplies and if really pressed send in FSU officers to conduct 'hits' on people who displease him. So some degree of influence? yes, command or demand - no.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2020 at 8:20 PM
  19. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Donor

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    Erdogan is in Putin's arms, and has been from the time of the coup. He can't trust the US or Nato, and he owes Putin his life. I wasn't too sure of it, until I recalled that the philosopher Alexander Dugan who is a close friend of Vladimir Putin; was stuck in the airport at Ankara and couldn't get home during the coup.

    What would Dugan be doing in Ankara, if it wasn't to help Erdogan? Sounds just too coincidental to me. According to some, Erdogan and his family were taken to the Russian air base in Syria. Maybe, maybe not! Who knows?

    Turkey is in a very strategic location and they know it, so they do whatever they want.

    You're projecting, since we're the ones with the bases all over the world. Russia's big problem, is to hold back the US and Europe from grabbing its land and resources which contains 30% of the world's wealth. Europe and the US know the world cannot survive without them. - so the attacks from the West are never ending.
     
  20. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Donor

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    You can push the button very easily, all you have to do is repent for your sins before you die. It's the state of mind you're in before death that determines your eternal destiny. Repentance is the key, and don't forget it or you're doomed. I'm not joking!:oldman:
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2020 at 10:43 PM
  21. Monash

    Monash Well-Known Member

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    A holiday perhaps? I presume even Putin's friends are allowed to take them once in while. Anyway it doesn't matter. So Erdogen does a favor for Putin, big deal. That's how power politics works at that level. If Trump or a European leader called and asked for a similar favor they'd get a similar result and vice versa. It doesn't cost them anything to do little 'favors' like this.



    Its in a key strategic location for Russia in terms of egress to the Med, much less so for NATO these days.

    Again, we've been through this before. Russia has nothing the West want's or needs they cant buy either from Russia directly or elsewhere. Russia has nothing worth spilling blood over. Europe can feed itself quite nicely thank you without Russia, more than feed itself in fact. And it doesn't have a burgeoning population (neither does Russia). About the only thing it can't do at the moment is warm itself in winter without Russia's gas whcih Russia is dead keen to sell.And even that will change over time.

    In summary, Russia needs Western inputs, far far more than the West needs Russia's.
     
  22. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Donor

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    France is now suspending it's naval operations in the Mediterranean because of Nato's support of Turkey.

    I came across something interesting a few days after Macron and Putin had a meeting. It seems the area in Libya with the largest oil wells are under France's control, and they are now being guarded by Russians.

    If we consider that Russia established posts with Chechyan guards all along the Israeli/Syrian border to keep them separated, then I have to assume the Russians are guarding France's oil wells and pipes for the same reason.
     

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