U.S. Army Tries New Recruiting Tactics

I feel for you guys and I have to admit, it's one reason I never went Army. Quality of life and living conditions just are not there. Going out to sea for 8 months at a crack is no picnic either but I loved the salt spray, loved deployments, especially to the AF bases (Those guys are spoiled rotten!) and loved flying "feet wet". There was just something about CAP with no land in sight and vectoring to intercept Bears out of Cam Rahn Bay.

We didn't get saddled with massive hours. We had our flight duties and collateral duties (I was DO for the Line and Maint. Control and then the avionics crew (IWT or Integrated Weapons Team), among other things). Hot seats and Alphas (Alert 5's) but being at sea was being in combat conditions 24/7. Even so, the enlisted crew had it much worse. I have a hundred stories of good and bad enlisted guys, guys I took to Mast (Captains Mast, not sure what you call it in the Army), guys I thought would have made great officers. In fact, an E-1 recruit who I helped check into his first squadron and I sent him off to TAD (mess decks) and then off to 1st Lt. (laundry and head scrubbing) was my star in the Line as a Plane Captain. Years later I ran into him again and he was Chief who just finished his college degree and was going for officer. I wrote up a nice report and sent it off, got the pleasure of pinning his on "butter bars". He left the Navy after 30 years as an LCDR. What a great American and a great human being this man is.

The biggest punishments we had for guys were to send them to the Tool Room and inventory tools all day long if they were deemed unfit for Maint. or unfit for flight deck duty. There was no room for screw offs on a flight deck or when it cam to maintaining equipment or gear. The chiefs did I pretty solid job of running their departments so no need for us to really bet involved.

I got recruited by the Army pretty heavily but decided I wanted fixed wing over rotary. Fighters over transports. Even if I didn't get my billet out of flight school, flying rotary or P-3's for the Navy would have been alright. Sometimes I wish I had gone for P-3's. Those guys (and now gals. No gals could fly when I was active until my final years) seemed really enjoy their life style. The military seems to have gone off the rails in the last 8-10 years.

I am rambling.... too much good scotch on a great Saturday evening. I hope they get things figured out and figured out quick, you guys deserve better. You really do. Veterans and active duty usually get a lot of lip service "Thank you for your service" but people don't really know what it means to serve. Unless you have served.

 

The Draft would solve the recruiting problem.

 

I think it would make it worse. Army Basic Training and IET isn't set up to deal with thousands of people who don't want to be there and will resist the process every step of the way. The Army hasn't dealt with that sort of issue in decades.

 

I agree with your almost everything you said and appreciate your response, but wanted specifically highlight one line because I think you are 100% correct. That would go a long way to fixing things in retention and in a lot of other areas. These endless wars have to come to a halt. We can be a world leader without all of these deployments and away from all of these wars and proxy wars.

 

I was just throwing that out to see what folks would say. I honestly believe the US should have mandatory service for every citizen. If someone objects on religious grounds that's fine there would be jobs for them. If a person with a physical handicap wanted to serve we should find them a job. Service to one's country is an honorable thing.

 

It seems like it would be more trouble than it's worth.

 

"Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty"

Your post would then lead me to believe that I do not have to pay taxes either. A truly free society would not have a government that demanded things from me that I don't want to give. I say the only truly free society would likely be Utopian or Anarchist.

Without the U.S. military we would not be as free as we are today. It seems only fair to me that anyone who has benefited from, is benefiting from or will benefit from this freedom should be willing to give of their time to help preserve the freedom.

It would not be the Government making people serve them it would be a government of the people requiring those people to serve their fellow citizens.

So in actuality you do believe in mandatory service but you want to decide when that service will be rather than letting me decide. Interesting.

If you want to know what the Government of our "truly free society" did, during the last World War, to people who didn't want to serve you might read about Igal Roodenko.

"ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country."
The man who said that served his country and its people in the military. He died as a civilian while still serving his country and its people.

I agree, don't serve the Government, serve your fellow American citizens!

 

I'm not a military person at all. I can safely say I would love to have the chance to join but that was ruined for me by Trump. Though to be fair, having asthma is probably a no go anyways.

But I am interested what about foreign soldiers who "volunteer" from allied countries? Do those impact the quotas at all?

 

Foreign soldiers? Are you talking about foreigners who join the US military or something else? Green card holders who otherwise qualify can join the military. I think about 8,000 a year do.

 

Foreigners who join the US military. I know someone who was originally in the Korean Army, but then volunteered to be in the US military. I'm probably not phrasing this right

 

I know there is (or was) some sort of special program for South Korean solders to be attached as auxiliary to the US Army, but they were not technically in the US Army.

 

Fair enough then, they probably wouldn't count then.

 

My brother's company Sgt. at his first command assignment was an Irishman, and retired back to Ireland after his 30 in training new Looies; never became a U.S. citizen, didn't want to. Fine man, though an IRA supporter, don't know which one of those he was of the few out there. My brother had a recruit from Puerto Rico who he liked a lot, great work ethic, hard worker, this in the '80's when those were hard to find, but his English sucked pretty bad; my brother out in extra hours trying to get him up to standards but he just didn't make it, so he had to discharge him. Never knew how they can get through Basic that way and off to their MOS duties without being weeded out, but they did then. Many foreigners do volunteer, don't have nay numbers for how many, mostly Central and South Americans probably, but mostly they want to earn their citizenship, which is fine by me; we can deport a Democrat for every foreign volunteer and make it a win -win for the new guy and the country. Some Americans join foreign armies as well; two of my uncles' brothers-in-law fought in Israel after they were discharged in from the U.S. Army in 1947., and some Americans served in various foreign armies in Asia before Japan attacked us.

 

Not really.

Here is the thing that most do not realize about conscription in the US.is not what they believe it was.

Outside of a war, it was for a period of 6 years. A 2 year initial commitment in the Active Duty, then 4 years in the Active or Inactive Reserves. That's it, 2 years. And they were generally shoveled into the support roles. Mechanics, cooks, supply, clerks, and positions like that. Low technical skills, easy and quick to train. Not into critical combat positions, or into high tech jobs that required so much training that by the time they finished their schools they would only have a few months left before being rotated back to civilian life.

And as jobs required more and more skills and training, by the time of Vietnam many jobs that had been open to Conscripts were closed. And it would be even worse today. In 1943, it took 3 weeks to train a tank repairman for a Sherman tank. Today, it takes 24 weeks to train an M1 repairman. And that is the norm for most MOS. I have now held 3 official MOS in my career (0311 Infantry, 14T Patriot Missile, 25B IT Specialist). And in these, I have had a total of over a year of training (plus a great many other schools pushing my time in training well past 3 years).

If we went back to Conscription, we would have the largest force of cooks and deck painters in the world, but very few in any other position. And then you have the issue of those who actually want to have those jobs, but can not because the conscripts all have them.

And outside of a major conflict, conscripts generally make pretty poor military members.

 

Sorry,I have to question that. In over 20 years I have never heard of that happening. And I have served with a lot of people who had limited skills in English.

We always found a use for them. Even if just in doing simple routine tasks, or endlessly sending them to mess duty or checking vehicles in the motor pool.

I have also served with many that never wanted to be a citizen. This was very common in the 1980s, especially from the Philippines. But I have served with people from every continent and dozens of countries. So there is probably something else in play there.

 

Higher pay. If they're losing folks to the economy, then it means people are looking for money more than service. As I understand it, the benefits are already pretty competitive.

However, there isnt much the military can do about that. Their pay is up to Congress, right?

 

It is never really pay. In reality it is opportunity.

I joined 2 times, and in both (1983, 2007) the economy was doing great. Most who might have joined the military did not turn it down for money, but because they had other options at the time. But when the economy is bad those opportunities are just not there.

Military pay is low, especially for first term recruits. And most of their peers make as much if not more per hour. But when the economy is bad those jobs much higher than say washing dishes are simply not there. And many are willing to take a lower paying job to start, if higher pay is possible down the line.

I have taken pay cuts to join the military. But to me it was never about the pay. And it offers a stability that the civilian world lacks. In a bad economy, you can loose your job or the company go bankrupt and you are unemployed. In the military at least you are guaranteed a job for 4-6 years.

 

I can't remember which base, but there was an Air Force base in Texas that used to teach English to recruits who were struggling in the language.

 

Yeah I don't really think pay is an issue. Like you said, the pay is already pretty competitive for the 18 year old high school graduate group. And with the new post 9/11 GI Bill, the education benefits are now pretty top notch.

 

Maybe its the level of conformity then. Perhaps the rise of individualism among the youth is making them incompatible with the rigid conformity that the military necessarily relies on for cohesive operation.

 

America's high carb diet is effecting national security

"Obesity is a National Security Issue: Lieutenant General Mark Hertling"

 

that is a big one too, 20 years of continuous war, with no end in site and maybe a new one with Iran in the future, America is getting sick of these long needless wars

 

Currently being obese and sitting on the couch playing video games seems more attractive.