U.S. Economy Flashes Signs It’s Downhill From Here

Discussion in 'Economics & Trade' started by Pro_Line_FL, Oct 31, 2018.

  1. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member

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    We have to reduce the deficit to lower the debt.
     
  2. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    The debt is not being lowered. It should be illegal for government to spend more than revenues but that is what it does.
     
  3. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member

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    Some debt is a good thing, the amount we are carrying not so much.

    I do think it should be illegal to shut down the government. It’s an absurd notion in other countries.
     
  4. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Debt is not a good thing. I also agree that it should be illegal to shut down the government. Luckily we don't do that. We put that description on an inconvenience for some people. We have never actually shut down the government.
     
  5. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    DIFFERENT STROKES FOR DIFFERENT FOLKS

    I am not defending the national debt. And if you knew its principle reason neither would you.

    So here it is in terms of the US's Discretionary Budget:
    [​IMG]

    Do you "get it"?

    We will NOT have a balanced National Budget for as long as DC doesn't want it. And, of course, we in the US are proud of our National Forces! Right?

    Well, they are costing you (plural) an arm-and-a-leg!

    And at a time when we, the sheeple are in full Age-change. That is, the US - and most of the developed world - are leaving the Industrial Age and moving into the Information Age. In the latter, a far higher skill-set is necessary that ONLY TERTIARY EDUCATION CAN PROVIDE!

    But the US cannot offer that new skill-set to our kids today because there is NO NATIONAL BUDGET FOR IT TO DO SO. This is the reason why Hillary and Bernie made (in their election promises) a free post-secondary education available to all families earning less than $125K a year! (Which would leave only about 10% of the nation with upper incomes having to pay in full their children's post-secondary educational fees.*)

    Read about that factual evidence here.

    And then the inanity of an Electoral College made that promise a lie, when it made Donald Dork president whilst
    HE LOST THE POPULAR-VOTE!

    Which happens on earth nowadays in
    ONLY IN SOME OF THE WORLD'S MOST UNDEVELOPED COUNTRIES ...

    MY POINT?

    Take half of that blue-part in the pie-chart above and give it to the red-part. That will allow our children to obtain the basic credentials that the economy is seeking today*. It is the only solution that will guarantee a risk-free evolution of America's economy.

    *I live in France. I asked my dentist how much his degree cost him per year. He said about (in Euros) $1200 a year, because all French-state universities carry medical-profession programs. (So now you know why my taxes are much higher than yours in the US, but I have also one of the better national healthcare programs. Different strokes for different folks!)
    **And by providing our own, we can stop importing highly well-paid foreigners who have the right qualifications because they went to university free, gratis and for nothing!
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
  6. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No country "has to lower the debt" as long as the world wants to hold the debt.

    We have to lower massive expenditure that is virtually USELESS if in a time of peace, that gouges almost half the national budget TO DO WHAT exactly?

    Not even Russia gives a damn anymore about attacking the US. And the US has far more demanding needs in this new Information Age of ours. Like a National Health Care

    Hey, Uncle Sam, Wakey-Wakey ... !
     
  7. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    In my view all spending is discretionary. Just watch happens to non-discretionary spending when we can no longer pay the interest. If our federal government would stay with what the founders defined for it, 70-90% of federal government would disappear. Those programs could go to the states where decisions are closer to the public, to the private sector where it would be better managed or to the trash can. I would do the opposite of France.
     
  8. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    I disagree.

    Reasonable amounts of public debt are great to smooth out and/or regulate the economy..

    Reasonable amounts of debt are great for large but necessary projects like infrastructure.

    Reasonable amounts of debt are necessary for critical national emergencies.

    Our problem today is that government and Americans recklessly use debt as SOP. The idiot running the nation now claims all sorts of economic growth and lower employment, etc. when in FACT the idiot is spending $1 TRILLION in debt money that has NOTHING to do with smoothing the economy, building large projects, or critical national emergencies! For those who care, $1 trillion in deficit spending alone creates approximately 10 million jobs. Take away the unnecessary deficit spending, which removes a minimum of 10 million jobs, then you will know the true US economy.

    The reason debt is not on anyone's radar is obvious...political suicide...
     
  9. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You are applying a thought-process (regarding "debt") that applies to individuals and not countries.

    The US pays faithfully and punctually its financial-debt and so it keeps borrowing because other countries like to park their reserves in US-debt. Period.

    What's it to you.

    This talk about the "founders" is ... uh kinda-stoopid. The founders are to be adulated because they upset a monarchical system that had prevailed for more than seven centuries. (Or more, it all started with the demise of the previous state hegemony of Rome.)

    They are history, to be revered for their original efforts of which our present democracy is the benefit. Unfortunately, in 1812 they made two VERY INJUDICIOUS MISTAKES.

    That dismantled the independence of the popular-vote for the presidency and allowed states to manipulate the electoral vote at the state level. You know them both - the Electoral College and Gerrymandering.

    What people do not understand is that because both have been unjustly been manipulating the popular-vote for two centuries - and America is still The Greatest Nation on Earth! - then why do anything about it?

    Here's why. Because in terms of a True Democracy,
    any manipulation of the popular-vote is contrary to the fundamental ethic of a fair and just political representation.

    Dead simple is it not?

    Nope, not for millions upon millions of Americans who have snookered into the notion that misrepresentation of voting results is OK because it has always been that way!

    They just don't "get it" - or prefer not to because they are "OK" with the present situation in America, the consequence of which is that the country ties with China in terms of Income Disparity as measured by the gini-coefficient. (And I wont bore you with what a gini-coefficient is. Just understand it intends to show "fairness" in income distribution.)

    China and the US are the two top-economies with the worst Income Disparity on earth:
    [​IMG]

    'Nuff said? Somehow methinks not.

    Still, note from the above why Income Disparity is far worse in the US than its most comparable economic entity, the European Union.

    The national debt is not as important an issue as the Income Disparity. Period ....
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
  10. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Which means increase taxation.

    Preferably upon the rich - not lower rates. Donald Dork was doing a BIG favor for his "buddies" ...
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
  11. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    The should face political suicide for overspending and taking on debt. If we were to borrow for a national emergency and they pay it back when the emergency was gone, I would agree with you. We borrow to fund utter nonsense in good times and bad so I couldn't disagree with you more.
     
  12. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    No, it should mean less spending.
     
  13. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    'Nuff said and none of it worth reading. Sorry.
     
  14. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Disagree all you wish and you'll be wrong...everything I said about using debt money is correct and acceptable.

    Your problem is not about debt spending but how PEOPLE abuse debt spending and this has nothing to do with what I mentioned. Your position is kind of like saying no one should drive cars because some people cause accidents and harm others? Don't refuse cars but go after the violators!
     
  15. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Opinions can't be wrong. They are only opinions.
     
  16. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Truth hurts, doesn't it?

    Especially when it's complicated ...
     
  17. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes and no. Less spending on the DoD, and shift the money to education and healthcare.

    Lets shift the spending to two values that actually bring benefit to the American people: National Healthcare and Free (or nearly free) Post-secondary Education.

    It's dead simple politically ... but almost Mission Impossible:
    *The Dems take both houses.
    *The Dems take the next presidency
    *BUT, the Supreme Court will resist any and all changes to gerrymandering because that is what the Replicants paid-for in order to seat them!
     
  18. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No, as I wrote in good-English.

    Not necessarily LESS but DIFFERENTLY!

    The American people deserve real-services that affect their lives, and not a massive military that is of no real necessity in the world today.

    We do not lower our guard, but we do shorten our punch ...
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2019
  19. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Less, much much much less. Way less.
     
  20. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Let's cut the federal government down to what the founders set up - defense, state, treasury and justice. The rest of it should go to the states, the private sector or the trash can. New federal programs are a non starter.
     

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