U.S. Education Rankings Are Falling Behind the Rest of the World

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by cd8ed, Feb 28, 2021.

  1. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Okay. And? Blacks have a lower LFPR for a lot of reasons, mostly related in some way to racism. It's complicated. Note that the black LFPR only went up slightly while the unemployment rate dropped significantly. The same is true for whites.

    599F3C91-F492-4214-9095-4219DDCB3929.jpeg

    Yes.

    Trump's lies about the economy have largely gone unanswered by Democrats. The truth is that economic growth in Trump's first three years was virtually identical to Obama's last three.

    1D78CBBC-FB4E-4EBF-9313-3FE05FCBA4B1.jpeg
    Trump's shills have been fogging the issue to his supporters.
    When people aren't working but still consuming, it means there are more people angling to consume current production. That means there is less for workers.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2021
  2. apexofpurple

    apexofpurple Well-Known Member

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    Quoting so more people can see that excellent poem.
     
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  3. apexofpurple

    apexofpurple Well-Known Member

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    Here's three barriers I suggest we remove:
    1. Things that block or otherwise hinder school choice.
    2. Teachers unions, or at least their ability to steal teacher's pay in order to use it to lobby for far-left causes.
    3. Anything and everything to do with critical race/gender theory.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2021
  4. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Perhaps because the left believes more spending equals better educational results so if we aren't getting the results we want it MUST be because we are not spending enough. Maybe the fact that teachers unions control politicians who gladly accept this premise and gladly pass more and more spending in return for those votes and no better product. More teachers, more administrators, more programs and results continue to fall. Do you know how much we spend on Head Start each year? How much we have spent over it's lifetime

    The United States spends $9.8 billion annually on Head Start to provide preschool and other services to 887,000 disadvantaged children and their parents. [1] The program's annual cost per-enrolled is approximately $10,000.
    https://freopp.org/rethinking-the-t...ter-serve-disadvantaged-children-e45d647d28bb

    How much has that been over it's 57 years of existence? Did you know that the governments own MASSIVE study showed it's it failure at what it is supposed to do and that by third grade there is no measurable difference in outcomes between children who attended and those who did not. $10,000 for daycare which doesn't require paying people who wave their masters degrees and doctorates in "early childhood education" and can accomplish nothing of the sort. But try to eliminate it and as a politician you have written your death warrant. As long as we can't have an honest discussion on the state of public education and as long as teachers unions and government bureaucrats control it nothing is going to change it.
     
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  5. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    I would add:

    Public schools should focus exclusively on academics, with a side of sport and music/art. By academics I mean literacy, numeracy, sciences, and history (actual facts-based "names and dates" history, not opinions). There should be no 'social studies' of any kind, since social matters are 100% the purview and private business of family and culture.

    If parents want their kids' to do social studies or other ideological stuff (ie, religion), they should pay for it via specialist private schools. Tax payer funded schools MUST be neutral in all things beyond academics, and the only way to do that is to avoid them completely.
     
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  6. Hollyhood

    Hollyhood Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The first issue that should be addressed is the lack of citation in the OP, the motivation behind the poster’s decision to leave it out. It’s in such poor form that the moderators should take it upon themselves to ‘axe’ threads that fail to source statistics and research that form. I know US education is not falling behind the rest of the world because I am familiar with the worldwide educational rankings, and I’ve cited the PISA scores numerous times to support my arguments. In contrast to the false assertion in the title, the US has climbed in the rankings. I’ll prove it. https://www.oecd.org/pisa/aboutpisa/

    The US was ranked 36th in 2012, and it is now ranked 22nd per the 2018 PISA scores. However, the focus of the 2018 PISA ranking was reading comprehension, which is the section the US ranked 13th (see above citation). https://cnycentral.com/news/local/new-survey-ranks-us-students-36th-in-the-world---how-do-we-improve

    The second issue is that the global competitive ranking – mentioned in the OP –tracks economical factors such as business and trade regulations, as opposed to educational proficiency and prowess. Both the US and China fell in 2020 due to the trade war. China fell to 20th on the list, because many countries are engaged or considering trade restrictions on the CCP. In fact, many countries have restrictions on Chinese companies traded on security exchanges. https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/mar...in-world-competitiveness-rankings/ar-BB15yaKM
     
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  7. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    WAKEY, WAKEY, UNCLE SAM!

    Is that really the point of it all? Is it not the general level of education within the economy that is the key-matter?

    After all, since the mid-1990s there has been an "event" that has fundamentally changed the "nature of work" in the US. It is called the "Internet". What happened?

    All those manufacturing-sourced jobs that were so highly paid rushed to a country called China and another called Mexico.

    See here: The changing nature of work in the US

    Excerpt:

    To wit, if Uncle Sam does not get off his fat-behind and start funding much-lower-cost post-secondary education* to further educate its kids, he is due for a Serious Work-prospect Reawakening that has already begun ... !

    *Which Europe has undertaken since the last three decades.It remains difficult to compare accurately, nevertheless, between the US and the EU, the number of people those comparative economic-entities are graduating. The sites that report graduations in both nonetheless exist:
    *US - Number of people with Masters degree
    *EU - Tertiary education statistics



    ...
     
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  8. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If you feel a rule violation has occurred the repot button is at the bottom of every post. Feel free to use it. Telling others their posts (actually sources) are in “poor forum” is definitely a rule violation however. I will ignore it because there is obviously a deficiency in the logic behind the reasoning in your accusation.

    Then post those rankings. You sourced an organizational website “About us” page — no data. No metrics. Try again.

    So because you disagree with the metrics used other data is not only invalid, it is “poor form” to even mention it. Interesting

    The US is dropping on direct scoring in courses — they also dropping or stagnant (as a percentage of the population) in tertiary education and advanced degrees which is alarming seeing the amount of money spent per student.

    None of this is sustainable
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2021
  9. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Thanks.Very useful bit of information! (Now let's see how well or not members-here know how to use it.)

    Those running this site might want to put in a link to "the rules"? Stating that there are site-rules is good but not good enough. There has to be an "alert button".

    Of course, that is going to prompt a lot of users to "push the alert-button", which means that the rules must be simple but clearly stated.

    There is a line above on this page-header that reads: "Home Forums Members" - and perhaps a fourth should be added? "Posting Rules".

    Just a thought ...
     
  10. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The rules tab is linked on every page on the bottom bar between donate and help :)

    http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?help/terms

    I usually do well besides rule 2, I walk into too many traps
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2021
  11. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Money-cost is a key-barrier to post-secondary education. In the US.

    As I have said here many times - it cost me in France a tuition-fee (in Euros that are roughly equivalent to dollars nowadays) of between 1000 and 1500€. Teachers (like doctors) work for the state throughout Europe*, and their incomes are decided accordingly.

    Of course, in Europe, that notion of working-for-the-state is easier to digest when your cost of education (to be a teacher or a doctor) has also been nearly fully paid by the state ...

    *It is a condition of entry to the European Union.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2021
  12. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Ah yes, I see it now that I have been told where to look for it.

    Not exactly the right sort of incentive, may I suggest? They should put the link up at the top. Methinks ...
     
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  13. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I have always thought new members should receive a welcome note with the rules attacked. A floating sidebar would also bring more attention to it
     
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  14. Hollyhood

    Hollyhood Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    From the organizational website, I found the 2018 PDF that is cited below.
    https://www.oecd.org/pisa/Combined_Executive_Summaries_PISA_2018.pdf

    Yes. It is poor form not to provide citations to demonstrate the validity of two very different sets of data used to evaluate different topics. The PISA results are strictly about the performance of average high school students across the globe on math, science, reading, etc., and the Competitiveness Report (cited below) evaluates economic policies and opinions to rank countries. On a side note, this is not even current events. http://www3.weforum.org/docs/WEF_TheGlobalCompetitivenessReport2020.pdf

    So you used an unrelated economic ranking to support the assertion that the US is slipping behind the rest of the world in education when a quick search of the previous PISA scores would have demonstrated the contrary. We used to be number 36 back in 2012, and we've climbed up as some of our European allies keep dropping. If countries like Spain, Italy and the US had smaller immigration populations, they would all move up into the teens. The gap is that huge as evidenced by the study from Spain and the above-cited PISA PDF. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s13209-013-0101-7

    I agree with your point that the US is dropping in key areas, particularly in relation to China, but I object to the context in which you presented the unsourced information. Our drop in the competitiveness index was not due to education, but instead, the evaluation of trade policy with China. In fact, China dropped to 20 in the competitiveness rankings, but I doubt you'd argue that they've fallen behind the rest of the world in education.
     
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  15. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Made me laugh! So, I am NOT the only one who commits such errors!!!

    (Which is YOUR preferred wine whilst posting ...!?!? ;^)
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2021
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  16. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    YOUR Quote: I am familiar with the worldwide educational rankings

    Several years ago, I wanted to know why Canada retained their top 10 average PISA score.

    https://factsmaps.com/pisa-2018-worldwide-ranking-average-score-of-mathematics-science-reading/

    Also back then, Trump was promoting their point-based immigration system, thus, I studied the academic performance/achievement of their immigrants, several generations.

    Their top 5

    1. Chinese
    2. East Indians
    3. Filipino's
    4. Black Africans
    5. White Canadians

    What's interesting is India ranked second LAST in global test/PISA 2012, Phillipine ranked near LAST, 76 out of 77/PISA 2018, and African countries ranked near LAST/OECD.

    https://factsmaps.com/pisa-2018-worldwide-ranking-average-score-of-mathematics-science-reading/
    https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...-last-in-global-test/articleshow/11492508.cms
    https://mybroadband.co.za/news/tech...o-last-in-the-world-in-maths-and-science.html

    What's your opinion, and/or conclusion?
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2021
  17. Hollyhood

    Hollyhood Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Section 11.

    ... There are additional rules for "Latest U.S and World News" and "Current Events": All thread titles must be copy/pasted from source article titles. Article titles that are too long to fit, should be abbreviated, keeping as close to the original title as possible. No personal opinions are allowed within thread titles. Threads must have a sourced article or news video, and the full article/video must be accessible upon clicking. (Content behind a paywall does not qualify as a source.). http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?help/terms
     
  18. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What makes you think they are "counted in". They aren't ...
     
  19. Hollyhood

    Hollyhood Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Cause I read the report. It's on page 14 and 15. I gave you the Spanish Study that clearly demonstrate that they are included in the overall number, and it is the main reason Spain is ranked so low. As a percentage of the population, first generation immigrations for Latin America and elsewhere make up a larger proportion of their high school students. Same in the US. https://www.oecd.org/pisa/Combined_Executive_Summaries_PISA_2018.pdf
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2021
  20. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    PISA has never interested me. I don't like the way the exam-testing is done.

    I prefer to use the number-of-degrees (education) that are obtained as a "marker". The statistic is a simple aggregate-number and countries are less likely to get that wrong.

    Of course, smartness is a key-aspect to any collective of individuals. Which is why I suggest that Uncle Sam finances post-secondary education (of all types).

    Elections should not be financed either by individuals. Not ever and not by anyone. It is our tax-dollars that should be employed for candidates to bring their message to voters. That is sufficient when employed in public TV-debates.

    For debate-purposes (which are key to any election) TV should be the principle mechanism and it would be more readily available to a larger part of the population. (The TV-stations could be funded for the time employed to transmit a debate-forum - either by amounts fixed by the state or federal-government.)

    Yes, I know: Some people like to "meet the person" when it comes to elections. But that is of no importance politically. Too much money is employed "finagling" the election in that manner. And that private election-funding has far too much influence in after-election behavior of the election-winners who feel obliged to "compensate" individuals for their financial-support.

    America's electoral-mechanism is badly devised (like the Electoral College*) whether it is the funding or gerrymandering. It's time we forgot history - which is rarely ever a good lesson - and get to the basics of funding elections out of local, state and national taxation..

    What countries on earth give a state's total vote to the party of the individual who won the election? Only a handful who institute the Electoral College mechanism.

    It is the party that should win the election. Uncle Sam has not yet understood that individualism is far less important that the aggregate population as regards a key attribute called "fairness" ...


     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2021
  21. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well they are NOT counted in France. And why is not-counting them important?

    Because it is the European Union government that decides how populations are counted amongst the states that belong. The population number defines the amount of EU-funding accorded to the state.

    The EU also funds separately those states that have illegal-migrants arriving amongst their population.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2021
  22. Hollyhood

    Hollyhood Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They are counted in France. Page 21. In fact, your second generation immigrants are significantly worse than the above-average ones in the United States.
     
  23. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I suggest you read here what is "authorized" and "unauthorized" existence in an EU country for which a person has had no legal entry permit: 5 facts about unauthorized immigration in Europe

    Their entry in to the EU gives them no automatic right to citizenship ...
     
  24. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You realize that is one of the primary focuses of discussions is to bring in alternate sources or other pieces of information that be considered in the scope of the conversation. Your assertion that I purposely omitted a source to push some type of narrative is just a failed assumption on your end.

    I hope to see all of your posts contain multiple sources from multiple perspectives going forward less your assertion just be a hypocritical rhetoric.
     
  25. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am an atrocious speller and my spell check hates me for it!
     

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