Ukraine war talks start now, Trump says after Putin call

It's a harsh reality that I wish I could disagree with as an American. I just hope we'll be back to sanity after Trump is out, but the way things have been going, our politics are quite schizophrenic now. The right has moved so far right that it would make even Adolf himself blush.

 

You've lost me here. Of course there was more in US history than WW2 but it was WW2 that created a modern, interventionist USA as a global power and global policeman. This contrasts with an isolationist tendency, understandable for a fledgling nation that the Great Powers could have crushed, "to avoid foreign entanglements". I argue that the golden generation that fought and died had a significant impact on a USA that was by default isolationist or imperialist. This golden generation that returned to the USA were committed to shared values with Europe, and by and large Europeans were wholly grateful to this generation as brave individuals who they saw as comrades whose bonds were forged in battle and sealed by blood. Maybe as a German you cannot feel that as an English or a French person could. It is clear that historically and symbolically WW2 and that golden generation represent the liberal values that have united the free world like never before and dominated our lives for sixty years.

The Boys of Pointe du Hoc:

That Reagan speech bears re-watching to see the betrayal of conservative values by US conservatives today.

"You all knew that some things are worth dying for. One’s country is worth dying for, and democracy is worth dying for, because it’s the most deeply honorable form of government ever devised by man. All of you loved liberty. All of you were willing to fight tyranny, and you knew the people of your countries were behind you." Ronald Reagan 1984

"We in America have learned bitter lessons from two World Wars: It is better to be here ready to protect the peace, than to take blind shelter across the sea, rushing to respond only after freedom is lost. We’ve learned that isolationism never was and never will be an acceptable response to tyrannical governments with an expansionist intent." Ronald Reagan 1984

"I really don't care what happens to Ukraine". JD Vance

So which horses do you want me to hold?

Yeah and murderers had a tough childhood. Nowhere did I argue that Europeans were wronged saints - in fact quite the opposite. But you over gild the lily. Merkel's blindness towards Russia was shared by every Western leader. The West's approach to trade with Russia and China was to go at it and worry about the consequences later. Nowhere was the enormous Western investment and leadership in developing Russian and Chinese economic capability, calibrated with strategic concerns as to how the economic power that we were building in these nations could be shaped geo=politically so that it would not be tuned against us. That was a collective failure of the West and Merkel's decision to allow Putin to dominate European energy markets when he was clearly the gangster leader of a mafioso state, part of that folly.

You entwine intelligent comment with gibberish. This is the latter. Trump is an amoral narcissist who doesn't give a rat's backside about anything or anyone but himself. The issue isn't Trump. It's the USA: the collapse of American character. I nowhere suggest that the Democrats are blameless. They are generally weak. But this isn't just about Ukraine. It's about making it your number one priority to attack and emasculate your allies and to delight your enemies. Americans in their millions have endorsed this and continue to do so. Betrayal like this cannot be forgotten or reversed. Those of us who were the strongest Atlanticists are now firmly against American leadership of the Free World and vow to depose it, whatever happens in the future. I gave the reason: the USA as a great liberal democracy was a postwar experiment that has now come to an end. America is now back in its eighteenth/nineteenth century mindset where many Americans feel comfortable. This changes everything. Europeans must fight for the future. The people in Europe that you support though wish to turn us backwards in the same way. They are the real traitors and enemy within.

Whataboutery. And crude as well. I do both. If you were paying attention you would see that it was the Vice President of the USA that was accusing Europeans of betraying American values because in Britain we do not tolerate men harassing women outside abortion clinics. The USA is what it is. What is necessary now is for Europe to get its act together to make sure it can defend itself and that US global dominance is weakened.

Your fake "German values" quote is catchy but disingenoous because of course it's much more complex than that. There is the post WW2 constitutional and historical position of Germany that has held back it military development. For much of my lifetime those with long memories have been very comfortable with German military weakness. That's not to say that German leadership with European support couldn't have broken out of this. Its also disingenuous to use the % of GDP argument because most European nations do not agree with interventionist wars in areas of the world the US goes to war, nor do they benefit economically from those wars in the same way the USA does. It is also a gross insult to Britain and the thousands of British who have fought and died in Aermican wars as we stood by our great ally. And Britain has been doing everything the USA has asked of it in terms of military spend. Americans defecating on the British dead is not a surprise though. The biggest risk of being killed in an American war for a British soldier is to be killed by American weapons in a blue on blue attack. This is a betrayal by Americans of its friends and in favour of its enemies in order to secure to grubby deal. It should never be forgotten.

The US defence interest is not in directly defending its borders (as with Europe) but in ensuring that a hostile power does not income so big that it can threaten its borders. So the US security interest is in defending Europe against aggression from tyrants. There can be no doubt that victorious Putin in alliance with a strong China would be a threat to US interests, even US borders (Alaska for example, regarded by Russian nationalists as Russian). There is also the question of the reserve currency which is Europe acquiescing in a system whereby the rest of the world finances American consumption through deficits which would be unsustainable otherwise - ie US living standards, the highest in the world, paid for by everyone else. The Americans have not had a bad deal for their 3.5% defence spending. But we are their friends no more.

Where I do agree is the complacency of the European elite in the face of the extreme Right, both in the USA and in Europe. But you Glueck are a fanboy of the extremists, no?

 

How is Gazprom shares Bill?

Is Sberbank still viable?

Niabullina is considering raising interest rates to 22 %.

Reports are from Pokrovsk that Orc conscripts are burning and damaging vehicles so they don't have to attack.

Toretsk is lost also for the Orcs?

UAF drones are hitting Samara refineries as I speak here.

Local residents are uploading vids from their phone cams to Telegram & Vkontakt.

As usual RuZzian air defenses are totally impotent.

Some news leaks....US negotiators Rubio & Walz pressuring Mafiosi to give up Kursk/Belgorod?

Lavrov is livid!

Thoughts?

 

[

Germany is key, not Denmark, so focus on that.

You outline the problems but no solutions. You don't even try. Your problem is that AfD who you love so much are so pro Putin and you to your credit are not. You just can't seem to get it into your head that there are broadly three camps here and you are in none of them (that's me being generous, I think I know which one you want too be in). There's basically the Extreme Right, the centre Right/Left and the extreme Left. The solution needs to come from the centre: some combination of the SPD, the CDU, the Greens and Free Democrats, over the next ten years. Germany needs to be on a war footing now and move beyond its party political bickering as it now faces an existential threat in Putin and therefore in the extreme Right and the extreme Left. The Centre needs to be reinvigorated. It's the only way. My reading on the subject shows that Trump's treachery and the emerging hostility of the USA may have damaged those European extremists who are now clearly identified with actors hostile to German and European interests. The battle needs to be fought and prepared for, not given up before it's begun. But then I fear you will be on the wrong side Glueck, won't you?

I am not arguing for yuan dominance. I am arguing that the US dollar should only be used in dealings with the USA and then, only where the USA is the seller. This is the risk free approach which it is logical for business to take to avoid currency exposure. There is no reason when dealing with China not to deal in yuan, where that is the selling entities currency. It makes pricing more transparent. Where custom dictates that a global commodity be priced in dollars that can also be changed, depending on the commodity. But if looking for safe haven currencies the Euro, pound or Swiss franc can also be used instead of the dollar. The dollar as the reserve currency is unfair and subsidises loose fiscal policy in the USA at the expense of poorer nations. The world needs to be more hostile against it as the USA becomes more hostile to the world.

T

This is the core of all your problems. You suffer from the anti-woke-mind-virus-virus, a psychological condition that imagines Western civilisation is collapsing in the face of "woke-ism", a collective term for anything that scratches any bigot's itch. So I read serious defence analysts, journalists and commentators from the Guardian, the Economist etc. and instead of answering ad argumentam you are incapable of anything other than ad hominem. Once you get away from the detail into your imagined culture war you lose it! What are you on about? Are you with the US VP in supporting the right of anti abortion activists to get in the faces of vulnerable young women outside abortion clinics? Or is your right arm aching to be lifted in an action that symbolises a roof over your children's heads, sieg heil ahem? Does it bother you what two men do with their willies in the privacy of their own bedroom? Do you yearn for the days when you could ask a woman coming for a job if she was going to get pregnant so you could give the fellow the job instead? (Yes I have come across Germans who refused to deal with women in the workplace. I would have fired them but somehow the Works Council protected them). Or are you just a good old fashioned xenophobe that doesn't like foreigners, especially brown ones, and doesn't care that European economic growth and the emerging demographic crisis in Europe makes immigration absolutely necessary?

In short what the wokey wuck wollocks are you on about?

I am aware that there is a problem in universities where little red guards go around harassing lecturers demanding the dumbing down of their courses and the destruction of intellectual rigour, but intellectual rigour was never a great conservative cause anyway (especially in the educationally backward USA where everything is by multiple choice and rote learning).

Still if your justification for collapsing the western alliance is the fact that some snowflake kids are being very annoying, or that Ahmed's German is not very good then I suppose you are where you are, with the anti-woke-virus-virus-delusion fully having you in its grip.

But then you reveal another problem - your affection for parties with a pedigree in European fascism, Petainism and even Nazism. Like Hindenburg, von Papen et al you think these beasts can be tamed? If only they didn't have a soft spot for the slavic untermensch eh? Is this what inspires the fury that I read widely and value the opinions of nuanced commentators who have been studying these issues in depths the good part of their working lives: that you hate the liberal, global Zionist Bolshevik intelligentsia? Be clear Glueck cos I haven't got a clue what sets you off on these rants.

You may think I am arguing ad hominem as well but I am just pointing out the gap in values between people who support liberty, democracy, human rights, a rules based order for the world, the rights of small nations to self determination without being bullied, the use of soft power to develop the world in a way that makes it a safer and more prosperous place... and the scum who want to tear all that down. I am afraid Le Pen and Meloni still have a lot of convincing to do that they are different from their political grandparents: vermin like Zemmour lying that Petain only persecuted foreign jews and protected French jews (as if that would make it alright) but he's still cuddling up to Meloni at Trump's inauguration. I know the long history of cover up of Nazi crimes in Europe and the appalling persecution of North Africans after the war in Algeria and France itself by these evil monsters.

As to Le Penization that sounds like a painful process every French fascist should be forced to endure.

It seems that this argument is more "useful idiocy" than "treachery". I don't hold a brief for Biden. I agree with you on Biden. So why don't you insist Trump does what you said Biden should do? He is doing the opposite: surrendering. On the one hand you seem to have a problem with it but then now you seem to agree with him. You give him a free pass so you are part of the betrayal - no surprise there for someone who consistently supports the far Right in Europe. He has given away two key positions with nothing in return. This is what Trump does. he is a terrible deal maker. What did he get from Kim? Nothing. Kim gained enormous prestige and the US took the pressure off to allow him to develop his nuclear weapons in peace. What did he get from the Taliban? He surrendered, negating the sacrifice of every Coalition soldier that fought there. What did he get in the tariff war? If he had just focused on reciprocity he could have done that but he went for stupid demands, people stood up to him and he backed down. He is a coward at best and a saboteur at worst. But you are a fan.

Something you do a lot. You contradict yourself. You need to realise there are only two sides here. Liberal democracy or Kleptocratic Authoritarianism. (Having said that there is also communism, Chinese style, but to most on the extreme right (like Musk) that's the same as the SPD or the CDU.)

You need to choose. You appear to be in the camp of the kleptocrats but feeling uncomfortable there. I am sure there are many RN, FdI, AfD conservatives who are similarly uncomfortable. Your only choice is to leave that camp and help the effort to rebuild a muscular centre which can reassert European values, the values of the Enlightenment, the Scottish, English, German and French philosophers, in the darkness being imposed the by criminals and gangsters in our midst. The liberal (meant in a wholly European not the bastardised American sense) backlash is coming.

 

As did Chamberlain

 

Look it's pretty clear and we should thank Heartburn for being so clear on this. Trump will not sacrifice one American life for Europe. Ever. When Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons it borders were guaranteed by ll, including the USA. Such guarantees from the USA are worthless because they are a fair-weather friend. the American "nuclear umbrella is a myth. It does not exist. Even British nuclear weapons are useless because they are supplied by the USA and can be sabotaged by the USA. Unfortunately only the French can save us all.

You can't trust the USA, just as you can't trust a Trump company's creditworthiness. He, and it seems now most Americans, are cheats and liars who don't keep their word (see how they are breaking contractual obligations everywhere re overseas development, they respect no law or legally binding agreement). there were even rumours that they will default on some debt, the debt by which the world finances a standard of living they have not truly earned. The Trump was warned that this would damage America but the thinking was clear - they cannot be trusted to keep their deals. The USA has chosen, as part of the new administration's foreign policy, to screw its allies and delight its enemies. And Americans are fine with that.

Which is why Europe needs to take care of itself and never again subjugate its own interests, even in the short term, to those of the USA. No more dying in American wars. No more supporting US diplomacy. No more talk about any "free world" including this nation led by gangsters and kleptocrats.

We share no values with the tyrannical imploding USA.

We watch its decline with a faint sadness that such a nation could really have been great for more than the sixty years when it truly shone.

 

It was what they thought in 1940 when they left the UK to fight Hitler alone (where Hitler was expected to win quickly). They were sitting there in their nice safe American home minding their own business as what Mr Hitler was doing in raping and pillaging Europe was not their concern. Then... December 7th 1941 Japan attacked Pearl Harbour and Germany declared war on the USA. They will have it that "they saved Europe" but what actually happened was that they had to defend themselves through an alliance once they had been attacked. There is no free lunch for the USA. They made sure in the prosecution of this war that they destroyed the UK economically which would allow them to become economically dominant in the world. There is no good America. It is a deeply selfish, short sighted and mean minded country that does nothing that is not for its own benefit. Sometimes this benefit js seen as long term/strategic or as now pretty short term and transactional (abandoning American soft power completely to save money on their development budget). There are however good Americans, those who engage with the world and give their time, money and even their lives for humanity, as did the golden generation who fought in World War 2. That generation is dead now. And don't we know it.

As to being leaders of the free world, I am not even sure they are part of it any more.

 

Saying it over and over and over and over don't make it true. It just makes you a stuck record.

 

The USA is MAGA now. Other conservatives thinking this will go away with Trump are deluding themselves. Vance is possibly worse. Musk is a Neo Nazi lunatic. The USA is not short of extremists and will not be in four years time.

That doesn't make sense. Summer soldiers let down their own side. As the USA is doing now.

This is just one of those right wing American myths (you know like that Europe is going to be under shariah law next year). It beats no resemblance to any reality. Why are Eastern Europeans your friends? How many died alongside US soldiers in American wars. Britain has lost thousands of personnel in American wars. Only real scumbags could denigrate this sacrifice.

The real reason American extremists say this is that Europe has much better health care and education for its citizens than the USA. So this somehow makes them enemies? Go figure.

As Christopher Hitchens used to say, what can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. Harassing women outside a medical clinic has never been a European value even if its one JD Vance cherishes.

Yes. Read up on it.

Strange question. Now. By relying on the USA to be a partner to Ukraine and provide 40% of the foreign aid to Ukraine, France has been relying on the USA to see its national interest the same as Frances, ie in defeating Putin. Democracies should do this no longer.

Countries with combined GDP bigger than Russia who need to contribute to Russias collective defence. Do you really need educating in these basics?

Europe has a right to a nuclear deterrent as much as anyone. And we have the wealth and know how to do this. France and the UK should extend their existing capabilities first and the UK should move away from US sourced (and therefore US controlled) weapons.

Not siding with the enemy. Arguing that the RMB should be used as a trading currency as this makes good business sense when trading with China. But I am arguing that where there is no US relationship in a trade deal the US dollar should not be used and that Europeans should favour the Europe, Pound or Swiss Franc instead.

I do note the mafioso type threat in your tone though. Europe should no longer be bound to hostility to China where it is not in its interests. As the USA continues to attack Europe China is cheering on. Europe can gain little by being loyal to US interests because we are allies. We need to serve our own interests and no longer act as allies of the USA.

It's the reason your interest ratses are so low and your consumption is so high. I note you provide no evidence. Again, what can be asserted without evidence as you do hear, can be dismissed as easily. Why bother?

Blackmailing Ukraine to handover 50% of its rare earths assets is military bullying. Europe has no alternative but to develop defence strategy based on no alliance with the USA and no reliance on the USA in any way whatsoever. There are strong signs that this is starting to happen.

Trumps just a symptom of redneck America, a nation now in terminal decline. They cheer his "energy" as he burns down their house. He has done us all a favour by speeding this up and alerting Europe to the fact that the free world is pretty much Europe, Australia, Japan and South Korea. Maybe Canada too if there is no Anschluss. I spent a lot of time in the USA in my life. Europeans are starting to understand the kind of Americans that don't live on the Coasts - the guys who have never left their states, anti-intellectual, often believing in end times Christianity (hence their support for Israel and the cheerleading for an Armageddon which will convert or burn the Jews there), racist and yet unbelievingly sentimental, and mindnumbingly ignorant of the world. Every country has this type but the USA has many more and a liberal elite so out of touch with this part of the country that it's beyond belief. Because weirdly these rednecks are actually nice people consumed by evil ideas. And American liberals are lost in their own echo chamber.

 

"

"Where's this "radicalization "of US citizens to Jihadi ideology gifter?" - The mirror is the first place you should look .. then to all the supposed US - Patriots on the Cheer team

"

The potty-mouth radicalization scat is not coming from me Zoomie -- I am not the one casting the Islamic State in Syria as "Liberators"
This is what happens to folks who are easily taken in by propaganda .. they be come susceptible to radicalization .. so lost in the propaganda they don't know up from down ..

but, speaking of wet diapers .. Volado is not doing well these days .. Not only has USAID turned off - Trump is now extorting Volado for 500 Billion in mineral wealth ..
--------------------------------------
Disconnected helplines, undiagnosed HIV cases and unfinished classrooms: Ukraine counts the costs of USAID suspension
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Ukraine counts the costs of USAID suspension | CNN

Another big cheer team fail - sucked in by the Pravda.Kyiv propaganda .. nothing new I know but, at what point does it dawn on these folks that they have been duped ?

They should have listened to the Prophet -- told them what happened to the previous JV-Teams - Is that not the cries of Volado we now hear just as foretold - kicked to the curb after being used and abused ! How can anyone be blind to this fact plastered all over the news as they cheer on the green teens being pushed to the front line while crying out that there is no fresh meat problem .. in complete illogical disarray and radicalized denial.

Talk to D about the radicalization of US citizens to radical Islamist ideology if want more information .. he posted some good info awhile back on the radicalization process .. @Durandal

 

It will take time to answer to your comments as there is a lot to discuss. I will focus here first onto NATO and the part where I want to point out that it took two to tango to come to that point. I read your comment in full, even though not citing most of it.

Why? That was your first comment I reacted to:

That was in the comment I was referring to and its imo not true. I admit maybe it is sometimes difficult to see what exactly I am referring to, but if we requote all the textmiles we produced here, we could write a book, but the graphic appearance would be a desaster then. At the risk to produce more misunderstandings, but in the hope to produce less than citing every exact paragraph, I wanna answer to soome of your arguments and trying to point out what I mean.

1. The part that the US was for a long time very satisfied with a militarily weak military is a valid argument and if you you find the time to read a bit around in that thread, you will see I made that point myself when Americans are either angry about the fact or just dont understand it. They have for a long time lived very compfortably with that world order as well. To a certain point I dont wanna judge the approach of Gerhard Schroeder and other European leaders to try to establish good relationships to Russia and to make it part of the European family. With the right partner the approach as such isnt stupid, it makes sense and you cannot always presume that the other side will just turn the gains of his parts of the win-win against you. We have to pay attention to the timeline when it comes to that.

I would say at the absolute latest 2014 you must have realized that this approach was an utter failure when it comes to Russia and Putin. And lets assume that the experience of the WWII is a valid excuse for Germany to be critical about miliatry and re-armament. Wouldnt it have been the very least, to develop at least a plan or a schedule, how to turn away from Russian gas in the long run? From that on Merkel had 7 years (!!) to react to that threat and give Obama, Kerry, Trump or whoever an idea what she is going to do about it. I mean, re-armament would have been better, being quicker would have been better, but a plan like that would have been a sign of good will. All of them reminded her that the NATO aim for the defense spending was 2%, all of them reminded her that its unappropriate to fill the war funds of a hostile nation and she did nothing. No matter if she tried to box it in nice words, thats a "**** you"! Its no surprise to me at all to get a "**** you" back after decades. US soldiers are present in Europe, expected to do their tasks of the defence and some countries make profits which increases their chances of dying, while they dont take their part in the defence? Thats absolutely inappropriate. And Gerd Schroeder already started with the "**** you" to the US, its literally decades. I mean our ex-chancellor is a Putin lobbyist today.

->

I cannot blame it all on US ignorance that NATO is what it is today. And please dont come up with "whataboutism" again, thats the argument of someone who doesnt want to face the inconsistencies and the double standards in his arguments. My point is it takes two to tango and its on both sides that NATO is what it is today.


2. And by the way whats this psychological approach on Trump, we can argue now if Merkel is a narcissist too in the end its telediagnosis and what positive side effects there are in Misnk I and Minsk II if negotiated by a non-narcissist? In what way did it help the Ukraine whether or not Merkel is a narcissist or Trump is a narcissist. Imo there was always a lot of Trump in the US, the Soviet Union and their Warsaw Pact just forged that alliance together. Emasculating your allies sounds like a pretty American approach to me. Delight your enemies? I will wait for the results of the negotiations. And what is "gibberish" about the fact that the support for the Ukraine during the first Trump administration was more valuable than warm words of Madame Merkel? And if I may ask, whats more important for you, the results or the character of the party (whether a leader like Trump or the US as a whole) who negotiated it. I have the impression you romanticized the US for a long time. I am not sure if they were always up to your ideals, I think they were rather forged together with Europe during the Cold War era.



3. I will give seperate answers to other issues you opened, German inner policies and the even bigger "woke-mind-virus" (there was an "anti" added obviously by accident, I corrected it in a way it makes sense, you are welcome) complex. The point you made touched all of it, JD Vance interfering into inner politics of EU states. I will for now ignore the actual points you made and he made and answer them seperately. I just wanna point out that normally the reactions were right to call that a presumptious interference of the inner affairs of a state and none of their business. You had the example with the UK, I found his comments about Germany went further, but in my opinion Europe opened the door for it when it interfered against Trump in all ways they had. Its payback. Due to your comments I am not sure if your grievances concern only his actual point or that he does interfere in that way at all. So just for the protocol.

... to be continued another time...

 

You cannot even give your definition of vital US national interests at all. You cannot say anything about it, whats your benchmark of a vital interest, as pointed out even a nuclear strike on the US would leave survivors thus you could argue its no vital interest to prevent that. You have no definition of it, you are not saying anything by it, these are just punchlines you picked up you are repeating, not having even an opinion about it. You cannot go even further into it, because you are not even interested in these punchlines.

 

When Hitler was raising hell the world wasn't long out of the War to end all Wars. Another European war with a cast of characters we met in that other one. War in Europe was pretty much a seasonal event and always the same folks. An American presence in Europe has provided the longest period in in their history that Germans, French and English armies haven't fired a shot at each other.

You're welcome Europe, but you can step up now, we're tired.

 

I tried to tell you how “vital US national interests” is self defining term. There is nothing in Ukraine which we need to maintain our national security or economic well being.


If you can not point to any vital U.S. interests in Ukraine, there are none.


Your introduction of a possible nuclear strike was bizarre. Apparently trying to educate you is a drill in futility.

 

Why does repeating the truth bother you so much?

 

There’s this fascinating psychological phenomena which we all suffer from at times…not all the time.. anyway “normalcy Bias, which is the desire to disbelieve or minimise threat warnings so that when you get presented with something you don’t meltdown and go “oh my God that’s disastrous! or something like that…and then at some point some kind of psychological self-preservation mechanism kicks in where you go “hmm…it can’t be that bad…surely it’s not that bad!!” I don’t mean like some false equivalency I mean trying to talk yourself out of thinking or believing something is deadly serious

So what’s the opposite of Normalcy Bias…presumably Hyperbole? Hyperbole being …well…saying that something is apocalyptic or earthshattering or making something out to be deadly serious wen in fact it isn't really.

So here’s the thing, looking at the moment we find ourselves in….looking at what is happening in the US…. these leaders of the Free World as they used to define themselves …now is not a time to worry about hyperbole rather a time to worry about normalcy bias……this is a time to try and silence that voice in your head that is telling you “is this really that bloody serious??”

So now that little voice is screaming….”the President of the United States, Donald Trump is lying! He’s lying on an industrial scale…on a scale that is almost impossible to compute!” But he's not just lying, he is all this online Kremlin propaganda made flesh. He is repeating verbatim the curated lies and falsehoods that the Kremlin has been pumping into social media….he’s serving up all the accumulated lies of the last 10 years about Ukraine and it being responsible for its own Invasion! All that Kremlin propaganda has seeped into all strata of the on-line world and…it’s difficult to unmesh and decide whether he’s just caught up in it or harnessing it for his own ends? But irrespective of that he is absolutely parroting Kremlin curated lies or propaganda lines.

That is simply incredible…it’s extraordinary…..not a moment for hyperbole….the President of the United States is peddling Kremlin, pro-Putin Propaganda.

Which brough me to your thought….

But what chance do they really have if they put their faith in people they are traditionally encouraged to trust and respect? How do you ask people to learn the mechanisms of critical thinking and applying them to the real world around them, so they can distil fact from fantasy when listening and reading this miasma of information and lies and falsehoods on social media? How are they to react when they see the likes of AP being banned from the White House or banned from Air Force one for not following Trump’s agenda in renaming the Gulf of Mexico? Where an organ like AP is replaced in the White House pressroom with far right bloggers?

And today, take for example Elon Musk who is a senior official in US Government and a close senior advisor to President Trump…today for example Elon Musk re-tweets a post from an account called “Basil The Great” on X purporting to show a riot at a Birmingham Hospital in the UK, with it being overrun and stormed by migrants wielding axes and knives who have broken down the doors and are flooding inside! Musk was re-tweeting this and exhorting his followers with taunts like “this is being ignored by the main stream media…it’s being buried by main stream media” and so on

It was in fact a screenshot from The Dark Knight Rises, the 2012, Christopher Nolan Batman film. So it wasn’t a Hospital in Birmingham in the West Midlands or even a real riot…it’s a film shot from a fictious place called Gotham City.

And this is one of the many channels the President of the United States, Donald Trump is signed up to.

Following that tweet West Midlands police had to put out a statement;

And that is Elon Musk. Arguably the second most powerful man in the world..certainly the richest using his own propaganda machine to tell all his followers that a hospital in Birmingham in the UK was being overrun by axe wielding migrants!!

So finally... just another quick thought....The Romanian elections last year which is really the distillation of a lot of the problems that we face. The last Romanian election was annulled because when the results started coming in two people, a lad called Călin Georgescu and a woman called Elena-Valerica Lasconi were performing incredibly well despite the fact that nobody had ever heard of them prior to the first round of the election. And this is where things get really tricky because it was the Constitutional Court that annulled the first round results citing article 50 paragraph 3 of Romania's electoral law. This allows for annulment if significant fraud or interference likely impacts the elections outcome. What they discovered was a whole slate of coordinated misinformation campaigns on social media all augmented by the Kremlin who were spreading all sorts of lies and misinformation to the point Georgescu seemed to be dancing around like a demented puppet with all the strings being pulled by the Kremlin. And now we have Elon Musk casting around posing little questions…do we believe the Court’s…are they trying to undermine democracy….do we believe the judges...who is manipulating them..and so on and so on. So in effect Elon Musk trying to undermine the very institutions that are designed to protect citizens from fascists and dictators and from oppression. It’s important to cast doubt on the judges and the courts as they are the last line of defence against people like Musk and Trump.

So in a nutshell – how to protect democracy….how to protect an imperfect system of choice from the will of the people who are acting on the will of others with an agenda that is designed to eliminate the will of the people.

 

No, you just claimed it is, which is wrong and frankly utterly stupid.

It may appear so to you, but the problem is you obviously are not educated so you just proved are inacapable of even giving a trial of a definition. Unfrotunately you obviously font even know what a "definition" is as your permanents attempts "but in the Ukraine" show. So it doesnt make any sense here to ask any further with the hope that someone who doesnt understand what a "definition" is, what an "example" is (of course my example was an extreme one for obvious reasons, you are still not capable to deliver a definition which would at least include that one) could come up with his definition of "vital interests" if I ask a fourth time what a decent elementary student could have answered at first trial.

It doesnt make sense, I put you on ignore. A further discussion with you serves no purpose.

 

Ok. That was funny.

 

D/Z freaking out....possibly I can fund holiday for deezs codgers? Azov lover heads exploding all over..

 

@zoom_copter66 @Durandal

Ouch .. sounds like a whole heap of hurtebutt for the cocaine comedian from Kyiv .. Trump is blaming Zelensky for the millions of dead and wounded ... talk about " throwing Zelensky under the Bus"

But this should not be a surprise to those blessed with the insightful words of the Prophet -- who told us years ago this day would come Right Fella's !

 

Trump says he wants to stop the war but he really wants to be friends with Putin and to receive the Nobel Peace Prize.

 

Maybe time now to go into the German inner politics you mentioned ...

Your three camp division is completely random. You can put it like that, you can draw the lines differently, thats up to you, but these random lines are however not of major significance for the politics. However, there is no center right in Germany anymore. There are the first careful efforts by Friedrich Merz (out of opportunistic reasons, I dont give him too much credit for that) to try to re-position the CDU back into the center, under Merkel it completely shifted to the left, I would not say center-left, but left. The Free Democrats could be seen as centrist, but they are no force to be reckoned with, its doubtworthy if they will survive in the long run, even if they do, for now they wont play a significant role in any upcoming government, they can be happy when they get their 5% to enter the parliament. The SPD is kind of an old fashioned left party more and more consumed by the Greens over the years, the differences between them and the Greens are slim overall, when it comes to Russia and Putin they are huge. They have been always critical of the US and proud of their tradition to cuddle with Moscow, but before the Schroeder era, when the chips were down, they would have turned to the West (lets say to the democracies as you put it), since the Schroeder era I see there a split in between the party over that, I would say there is a pro-Putin wing in it and another part which is maybe critical about Putin and would agree to a moderately harder course towards Putin. Your suggestions are not only about Putin, but also about the overall attitude towards military and rearmanent. The Greens foremost and to some extend the SPD as well has always been critical of our army and its doubtworthy that even those who are anti-Putin will agree to that.

You are talking about reinvigoration of the center while in fact the parties you wanna point out as center rule Germany since WWII. The fact is the CDU kicked out conservatives in the Merkel era for short term gain of the applause of the MSM wasnt really a good idea in that sense, like a lot of their ideas have the horizon of the next election. That was the birth of the AfD which was found by former CDU members in 2013, at this point it was the EURO crisis in the context of the Greece financial crisis. Our government til recently, which consisted of the parties you claim to be center broke because with the backing of the MSM and the so called activists the Green think they can afford it to treat the FDP like an enemy. Its ridiculous to always call for solidarity between "democrats" when its about to cast out the voters of the AfD from all democratic processes and simultanously painting Christian Democrats and Free Democrats as Nazis more or less inciting violence against them. If what you call "center" wanted to follow your suggestion the last 30 years would have been a pretty good chance, even the last 4 years, dont you think?


The AfD has a lot of pro-Putin politicians as well, without a doubt. They are maybe Putin's biggest supporters if you ignore the strange "radical left with a bit of radical right" BSW at least. Its by far not the only point I am critical of, as I am wondering about your attitude towards parties you vote, I never in any elections gave my vote to a party I support forever no matter what. Parties are voting clubs nothing more nothing less, people - sometimes politicians who do only share some political values disagree in others, sometimes politicians who share most political values but cannot stand each other nevertheless - build a club to be organized in a party which gives them more chances in the political competition. I could even drop some very few names of Green politicians I consider to be very respectable. I would never support them on a green list due to the disgusting creatures I would have to support as well on that list.


What would be possible however with the AfD would be to rearm Germany again, as they dont have that hatred for military and soldiers as the left. With LePenization I didnt want to create images in your head (although I have to say if you think about that Melonification sounds in that sense more painful than LePenization), I meant the process that took place in Italy and France where former Putin bootlickers understood that turning away from that psycho was the key to power and there has been a development since then. In Germany quite the opposite takes place the MSM, the pampered left wing activists and cuckservatives who hope for the mercy that they dont get targeted by the same groups that quickly created that "firewall" JD Vance was talking about. So the AfD saw their chance in being more and more radical, take advantage of the the hostility towards them as they realized that the majority of the voters and the population doesnt share the values of the extreme left (and the Green Youth e.g. is extreme left), oftentimes feel helpless towards this deep state coalition consisting of the media, the SPD-Green-Left parties (which dont have a majority) and "activists" (Antifa, FFF) thus getting more and more attracted to the AfD targeted by this coalition as well. Their strategy is the only one the others left them, but they are propably ok with it, as its pretty effective and has serious chances of paying off. They just keep present in the media the images of the left wing coalition against them and spill gasoline into this fire. Melonification is the opposite process. Talk with them, make clear what is possible and what not and lets see how this party develops if anti-Putin politicians suddenly have to offer participating in the governments.





Its by far more complicated than your three camp lines and if you want to stick with your three camp theory and still suggest an alliance of the political center, talk to your camp, which will insist Free Democrats, Christian Democrats etc. are all racists, sexists, etc. too thus you are not allowed to talk to people like that.



Why are you accusing me of having no solution in mind? I clearly gave you my suggestion how a solution could look like. A strong centrist chancellor would hold all the aces in our situation. A cuckservative who wants to impress the MSM thus swearing them not to use them will be a hostage of the Social Democrats and Greens, so business as usual. Social Democrats knowing that they can dictate their positions against the majority of voters which they are used to, will never reform their old fashioned party and reconsider their positions. I gave you a simple suggestion how Merz should act imo. A big "**** you!" to the Green Main Stream Media, a minority government, take the majorities as you get it in the parliament. If they wanna block re-armament, get the votes from the AfD, if the AfD wants to block e.g. Tarus warheads for the Ukraine try to negotiate with Greens and SPD for their votes. He was holding all the aces, if he wasnt a cuckservative who will cuck towards the MSM, it would be honestly no rocket science.



Maybe its you who have to make the decision, not me. Do you want a serious (small steps are maybe not completely impossible with the SPD) rearmament of Germany or is virtue signalling more important. I have made up my mind about that and its based on the realities how these parties and politicians are, not on romantisized images.
Maybe its also you who have to decide if you want an alliance of democracies or only those "liberal democracies" or only the liberals. I am aware that you maybe could have meant it in the sense we use the term "liberal" in Germany, but I am not sure if you want to apply that only on left wing governments, so democracies who voted for the correct government according to your view.


In my next answer I will go for the "woke mind virus" part, the part you felt insulted because I insinuated the Guardian to be a "**** media" you should stop consuming to not longer confuse Trump and the US with the biggest enemies of the democracy. Pretty thin skin to throw afterwards every stereotype at me, the typical Guardian reader has in mind, but ok, I will answer to that as you seem to be honestly interested in a discussion. I am not aware to have disrespected "The Economist" by the way, for the protocol, I just wanted to disrespect "The Guardian" of those two. I dont follow "The Economist" on a regular base, but as the typical left wing printed toilet paper celebrates Merkel, the "Economist" had some tough love talk for Germany about what kind of utterly pathetic choice they made by voting her in and how she turned Germany into a candidate for the shithole transformation. So, I stick to my opinion about the Guardian, please duly note that I didnt wanna judge "The Economist" in the same way.

 

humph...what's wrong with the Grauniad....damn fine read if you ask me!!

 

Zelensky is unlikely to care that Trump says stupid things. He already knows that Trump is an idiot.

He is likely paying attention war strategy and is too busy to pay attention to Trump's meaningless raving.

 

KK -- so Trump cuts off USAID - ensuring the rapid collapse of what is left of the Ukraine Army - cuts off any hopes of NATO for Ukraine - negotiates away the territory Russia has occupied - throwing Volado under the Bus .. but the cocaine comedian from Kyiv is unlikely to care . because Trump is an idiot and the next line awaits ..

"meaningless raving" -- Right !