Ukraine's Zelensky says he has 'cooled' on joining NATO

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Lil Mike, Mar 9, 2022.

  1. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    I'm starting to think Zelensky doesn't think he can win this war.

    Ukraine's Zelensky says he has 'cooled' on joining NATO and is open to discussions about control of Russian-backed separatist regions

    Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said that he had "cooled down" about Ukraine's bid to join NATO amid Russia's war with the Eastern European country.

    "Regarding NATO, I have cooled down regarding this question long ago after we understood that NATO is not prepared to accept Ukraine," Zelensky told ABC News in an exclusive interview that aired Monday night.

    Zelensky added: "The alliance is afraid of controversial things and confrontation with Russia. I never wanted to be a country which is begging something on its knees. We are not going to be that country, and I don't want to be that president."

    Ukraine's pursuit of NATO membership has been cited by Russian President Vladimir Putin as a justification for his decision to invade Ukraine.

    In addition to his NATO comments, Zelensky said on Tuesday that he was open to discussions about the control of Russian-backed separatist regions in eastern Ukraine, which could be an opening for peace talks with Russia.

    "It is important to me how people who want to be part of Ukraine will live there. I am interested in the opinion of those who see themselves as citizens of the Russian Federation. However, we must discuss this issue," Zelensky said.

    It sounds like he's interested in talks.
     
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  2. zoom_copter66

    zoom_copter66 Well-Known Member

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    I'm surprised at the fight they put up.

    I think Russia lost far more.
     
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  3. 61falcon

    61falcon Well-Known Member

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    Didn't he say he was unwilling to give up one inch of Ukraine to Russia?????
     
  4. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Zelensky is not a very experienced politician or head of state, and as such he seems to let his emotions govern his statements a lot of the time. His outbursts condemning those helping Ukraine for not giving him everything he wants have led me to this assessment. I suspect that this statement of 'cooling' to joining NATO is likewise emotional and momentary in nature. Of course he wants to negotiate peace, and he is under tremendous pressure from all that is happening. That pressure is designed to force him and others into making concessions such as this one.
     
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  5. Josh77

    Josh77 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The West has failed big time in all of this. Putin has punked us out, while the Ukrainians have fought valiantly, far beyond anyone's expectations. I can see why they would be hesitant to join us after how badly we have failed them.
     
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  6. Matthewthf

    Matthewthf Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well said.
     
  7. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    I don’t think Ukraine even needs to be in NATO. Even after this war - they demonstrated that they can stand up for themselves.
     
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  8. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Donor

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    Blame the US when everything else fails.

    We didn't fail them. It was never our responsibility to fight their wars for them. They know that. Everyone knows that.

    As for Zelensky, - if he can get Russians to turn back by saying he won't join NATO, then its probably worth saying it.

    Yes. They can ramp up their defense spending after the war and be even better prepared for any future attack. Besides, they CAN still join NATO even after telling Putin that they won't do it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2022
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  9. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    Zelensky says he is open to Ukrainian neutrality, but without territorial concessions.
     
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  10. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Donor

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    Is it worth clinging to those separatist areas if the people there hate Ukraine?
     
  11. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I tend to agree. They should root out the corruption that has made Western Nations skeptical and stand on their own. They have won a lot of respect. Sort of like a "budding United States!
     
  12. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    Well, I, personally, was in favor of the Israeli brokered deal, but Zelensky rejected it.
    Judging from my conversation with some Ukrainians on the ground, they are so angry at Russia that they are ready to endure this war for a much longer time if it results in the collapse of Russia.
    If we, the west, keep our pressure on at current levels and Ukrainians literally bleed them on the ground on a massive scale, then it’s not impossible.
    If Russia has a revolution, Ukrainians would be able to exploit temporary weakness and uncertainties in the chain of command during that process and kick Russians out of the entire country. If this happens - the whole world would benefit.
     
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  13. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    I think this war will eliminate future corruption. Initially, corruption arose during collapse of the USSR because people had no strong allegiance to any entity and had poor understanding how their tax money work.
    This war teaches them the discipline of the “common good”. This war and Russian weaknesses shows them that corruption inflicts real costs on the quality of the government entities.
    They are united now, and when a nation is united, it experiences very little corruption. In many ways, this war benefits Ukraine and is important for its future.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2022
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  14. Alwayssa

    Alwayssa Well-Known Member

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    If the Russian premise to invade was that Ukraine wanted to join NATO, then that premise, through President Zelensky statement, is now null and void.

    Personally, I think he is trying to offer an olive branch to Putin for a cease fire right now.
     
  15. Hey Now

    Hey Now Well-Known Member

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    He was a comedian and an actor for years; he knows the power of drama and how the media loves to cover and feed it. Not a comparison here, but the covered Trump 24/7 for free prior to the 2016 election cycle and the cycle was changing daily.
     
  16. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    When you say, kick out Russians, are you referring to kicking out the Russian army or people of Russian ethnicity?
     
  17. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Looks like some of the negotiations have leaked.

    What is going on in negotiations between Russia and Ukraine?

    "Assumptions are that he will be forced to give up the contested Donbas region, officially recognize the pro-Russian dissidents in Ukraine, pledge that Ukraine will not join NATO, shrink his army and declare neutrality. If he declines the proposal, the outcome may be terrible: thousands, perhaps tens of thousands of Ukrainians will die and there is a high probability that his country will completely lose its independence."
     
  18. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    Army.
     
  19. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    I don't know why we have to worry about some other countries sovereignty and borders when we don't do anything about ours. Every city I've been to has a little tent City within it.

    We just gave 16 billion dollars to the Ukraine we can't afford to be the world Police I don't think we should be even if we could afford it.
     
  20. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    There is heavy fighting right now not far from Kyiv. This article says Russians paused, which does not seem to be the case. Their army is stalled and they don’t have enough force to fully occupy and pacify Ukraine. Meanwhile, Ukrainians continue to report ambushing and killing off Russian troops on daily basis. Even if russians send in fresh conscripts, they’ll just serve as cannon fodder, as they have no real combat skills and experience.
    Zelensky already rejected this deal - he said they won’t concede any territory. The only thing that Russians can do about it is continue bombing maternity hospitals.

    In the last couple of days I’ve seen news about Ukrainian forces killing off Russian fascists in several towns, so they started to counter attack more and seem to have enough confidence to keep going. For some reason, western MSM seem to chronically over exaggerate Russian strength.
     
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  21. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Well if you genuinely think that the Ukrainians can push out the Russians and win the war, there is no need for these negotiations.
     
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  22. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    What I see is that from the very beginning everyone thought Ukraine will fall within the first 2-3 days, but Ukrainians projected confidence. It’s been 2 weeks and Russians didn’t make much progress.
    Now, western media seem to push the narrative that Ukraine will eventually fall, but Ukrainian side is very stubborn and projects confidence again. They seem to stand their ground during peace negotiations, at least from what we know. Their mass media indicates a lot of confidence in the way this war is going and even those people on the ground who I personally know seem to be pretty confident in their victory.
    I’ve seen videos of Ukrainians fighting - instead of taking their enemy head-on, they attack flanks, or attack from behind, which explains why some convoys managed to make it deep into the country, but failed to take large cities. This method of warfare for the home side is very beneficial as it’s extremely lethal to an enemy who doesn’t have the extensive knowledge of their current location. They estimated that out of 150,000, they already neutralized (dead, wounded, captured, desertions) about 1/3 of that entire force. Also, within the first days of war they killed off some of Russias best elite forces.
    I’ve seen numerous videos where Ukrainian locals were providing troops with fortification upgrades using their own equipment and were providing their troops with food and beverages.
    Russians morale is below the floor and desertions are so common that Ukrainians report finding undamaged Russian equipment daily.
    Ukrainian morale is so high, some who I talked with don’t mind continuing the war because it looks like entire Russia started to suffer serious economic damage and they hope that it will fall apart due to economic collapse and rise of separatism caused by Russian military being tied up in Ukraine.
    They are making after war plans and discuss reparations.

    I don’t know, it seems to me, Russian force suffered massive losses and are not in a condition to take over this country with all of its cities and pacify the population. Not providing Ukraine with fighter jets probably prolonged the war, but it doesn’t look like it pushes it over one way or another.
     
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  23. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Technology has finally created mass produced weapons that a single human being can carry and use to bring down aircraft and vehicles, including tanks.
    War will never be the same.
     
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  24. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    It took six weeks for the US to defeat Iraq. I don't expect Russia to beat our record in Ukraine. If you think because the Russians didn't win the war in 2 or 3 days it's over for them...eh you might be disappointed in the actual result.
     
  25. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    What do you mean finally? We've had them for decades.
     

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