US Army Muslim Gets 25 years for Giving Classified Documents & Drone to Islamic State

Fundamentalist Mormon friends (I have some) say that is the #1 problem socially.

The government is the #1 problem, period.

 

@Robert has posted more than at least sixty posters elsewhere since this last series of mine demonstrating the LDS Church acknowledges Joseph Smith Jr.'s polygamy.

I accept Robert's defeat.

 

This is the site you handed to me.

Page Not Found
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Page Not Found
We're sorry, but the page you're looking for was not found.
Please check the URL for proper spelling and capitalization. If you're having trouble locating a page on LDS.org, try visiting the LDS.org home page or enter a search term in the field below.

 

@Robert is either deliberating cutting the link or does not how to open links.

This works: https://www.lds.org/topics/plural-marriage-in-kirtland-and-nauvoo?lang=eng

The LDS Church open acknowledges that JSJr. was a polygamist.

 

"After receiving a revelation commanding him to practice plural marriage, Joseph Smith married multiple wives and introduced the practice to close associates. This principle was among the most challenging aspects of the Restoration—for Joseph personally and for other Church members. Plural marriage tested faith and provoked controversy and opposition. Few Latter-day Saints initially welcomed the restoration of a biblical practice entirely foreign to their sensibilities. But many later testified of powerful spiritual experiences that helped them overcome their hesitation and gave them courage to accept this practice."

Really, @Robert, you know this is true, but you immorally, stubbornly resist admitting the truth.

And you saying you will only accept a church web site means you are not interested in truth.

 

Jake, you seriously suffer a problem called being an authoritarian. Beat down the opponent is your tactic.
I agree that the site you produced did come from the church. It agrees he engaged in polygamy. I will admit you provided a site from the church making comments you used.

Frankly as i told you from day one, him marrying more than one woman never distressed me. Even the church site is not truly definitive in my opinion due to comments such as data is fragmentary and things like that.

As I told you Brigham Young had many wives so it stands to reason that I do not mind polygamy at that time.

 

You are an authoritarian, @Robert. It is not beating you down for me to provide sources from your church as you requested, and then point out that you are still quarreling about it. I see no problem making your repeated refusasl public, since you denied it earlier in this thread.

You told me early on that you did not believe that JsJr. was not a polygamist, because of Emma's statement, which I believe was the result of psychological problems.

I do thank you for admitting that you are saying that the Church did indeed prove the statement.

If the evidence is solid, I have no problem changing my mind without being called on several times before. You are right that the evidence must be solid as it is here.

 

You call me an authoritarian over my comments about Joseph Smith? I have read far more than what you presented from the church talking about faint evidence of him having multiple wives.
And you called me plenty of names. Immoral being one of them.

 

You are being stubborn because you could not defend your position but would not admit you were incorrect: that is being an authoritarian.

You call me wrong 'terms', and I will call you out every single time.

FAIR talks about "faint" evidence about JSJr.'s children from other wives.

If you really and truly believe JSJr. was not a polygamist, then you are probably in the wrong church.

The Restorationist groups from the Community of Christ (the old RLDS) may be more up your line of belief. They are not mealy mouthed like most of the CoC about it. The Restorations flatly state JSJr. was monogamous and go crazy when confronted.

 

Why? I already stated why. But here we go again.

The "deathbed confession" of Emma stating that she was the only wife of Joseph Smith was done for several reasons. But primarily because she had left the faith years before. Her second husband (Lewis Bidamon) was not a Mormon. And between her own issues with Young and those of her Son with Young most of the family distanced itself from the faith after the death of Smith.

Their oldest son (Joseph Smith III) then founded the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (now known as the Community of Christ), and were no longer "LDS". Most of the last years of her life were spent disavowing much of what Joseph Jr. had done.

Remember, this was a time of great controversy and schism in the faith. She died in 1879, when polygamy was still practiced in LDS. However, from the very beginning the RLDS was against polygamy. So when she made that statement, it was as a member of the RLDS who was pretty much separating herself from the LDS.

Funny, but for all of your talking about we should listen to what she said, you did not mention that she had already left the LDS church years before. And followed Joseph III in founding a new religion. One that was actively sucking up any LDS who were strongly against polygamy, since the Manifesto of 1890 was still over a decade away at the time of her death.

 

Well good for you. Here is one then. Refute it if you can.

https://history.lds.org/blog/historical-record?lang=eng

Feel free to move forward and start at Page 233.

https://archive.org/details/historicalrecord01jens/page/232

Now I have mentioned Mr. Jenson and his work here already. Not only was he the official historian of the LDS church, he wrote rather detailed books describing the history in detail. As the Lord Protector of England would have described it, "Warts and all".

This is recognized history, as accepted by the LDS church.

Refute that. Good luck.

 

A very good question. This is treason, surely. Like, as treasonous as it gets.

Is your justice system now a 'theocracy'?

 

You realise that the word 'islamaphobe' has no meaning to anyone but posturing Progressives, right?

 

Yes. For now. It's a waiting game.

 

I take it as a compliment

 

Fair enough.

Meantime, every time I hear or read it I LOL to myself at their naivety and lack of imagination. They literally don't realise that it has as much meaning to us, as being called a Trumpaphobe would have to them. Bless their tiny minds

 

I started to read it. Will finish later. Thanks.

 

You are aware that I am about as far from being a "progressive" as you can be, right?

 

I was aware of that. But the fact is that Mr. Jenson left behind extensive records, very detailed and cross-referenced. And records that the LDS church itself considers "accurate and factual" in regards to their own history. But he was the "Acting Church Historian" from 1899 until the end of 1900 when the previous one died and it was a year before he was replaced.

Interestingly, he served under 4 different "Church Historians". None of which it should be noted was actually a historian of any kind. The position is actually more of a "political office", only one of them (Joseph Fielding Smith) appears to have even written any kind of historical book at all before or after taking the post.

So yes, while the office is factually "Assistant Church Historian", it was himself and others in that position that actually did the vast majority of the work. Including works actually published.

And of interest, Mr. Jenson also appears to have been a polygamist. While information on him is actually rather sketchy, one biography lists him as having 3 wives. Kirsten M. Pedersen/Sorensen (m. 1875 d. 1887), Emma T. Howell (m. 1886 d. 1937), and Bertha T. Howell (m. 1888 d. 1945). And in the official LDS biography of him, there is the following entry:

https://history.lds.org/missionary/individual/andrew-jenson-1850?lang=eng

So it appears that he had 3 wives, and was married to 2 of them at the same time from 1886 until 1937.

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/6352664/andrew-jenson

Which explains a lot of his fascination with polygamy. Most of his early work was based on that as a key part of his research. Including going through the old Territorial and State records finding those who had been incarcerated for polygamy.

 

Your take is interesting, can be argued, but is not worth arguing.

The facts remain that the LDS Church does recognize JSJr. as the fount and founder of polygamy in the Restoration churches, including the LDS.

Robert asked for proof, was given that, and still denies what his bishop and stake president and the rest of the file leadership is the truth, and would tell him, "Brother Robert, don't apostasize over this. It's above your pay grade."

 

Good to hear!