US Lawmakers Seek to Criminalize Boycotts of Israel

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Ethereal, Jul 20, 2017.

  1. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2010
    Messages:
    40,617
    Likes Received:
    5,790
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Republicans and Democrats are both pushing to criminalize commercial boycotts of Israel. The law, if passed, will open up violators to million dollar fines and twenty years in prison.

    In other words, if you use your own property (your business) in furtherance of your free speech rights, the US government, on behalf of their Israeli masters in AIPAC, will RUIN you.

    When asked about their position on the bill, several Senators and Representatives did not seem to know what was in it. Apparently, they will support anything the Israeli lobby shoves in their face.

    And the most ironic and perverse part about this? Many of the co-sponsors for this bill are Democrats who have been obsessing over "Russian meddling" in American democracy. Yet, here they are, actively conspiring against the RIGHTS of Americans with a foreign power.

    That this bill even has ONE sponsor, let alone dozens of them, is disgusting.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2017
  2. VietVet

    VietVet Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2017
    Messages:
    4,198
    Likes Received:
    4,859
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I am not worried.
    What are they going to do? Force me to buy Jaffa oranges??? I can stage my own boycott.
     
    Guno likes this.
  3. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2010
    Messages:
    40,617
    Likes Received:
    5,790
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You should be.

    They are going to ruin any business that engages in a public boycott of Israel. In other words, they are trying to criminalize a form of political activism.
     
    Merwen, Diamond, Mircea and 2 others like this.
  4. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    13,830
    Likes Received:
    3,054
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Unbelievable. Well I guess the politicians are truly afraid to stand up to the Israeli lobby. They shouldn't sign this, but I guess they will. And this coming from me who is pro-Israel in the conflict between the Palestinians and Israel..
     
    The Mandela Effect and MVictorP like this.
  5. Ostap Bender

    Ostap Bender Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2008
    Messages:
    14,957
    Likes Received:
    1,274
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Question: why a tiny minority wants to silence the entirely world?

    [​IMG]
     
  6. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    18,965
    Likes Received:
    3,421
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    I am sure some of your people are using your courts about this. This is what has worked in the UK. Both with BDS and when they try to bring other charges for instance a claim that it was antisemetic for colleges to discuss Israel critically as it made a Jewish Lecturer feel uncomfortable. He said he was Jewish and he thought Israel was part of him so to discuss Israel in a critical way was antisemetic and the Universities should be stopped doing this. He lost.

    Our Government tried to stop English and Welsh councils from engaging in BDS - our courts found they did not have the legal right to do this.

    They tried to stop demonstrations against Israel's wars by claiming the were antisemetic and engaging in 'Blood Libel'. The Scottish Court said not so.


    https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20170714-opposing-zionism-is-not-racism-rules-scottish-court/


    Unfortunately they do not give up. Now our Government is trying to make the IHRA definition of antisemitim legal in the UK. Trying to get Universities to accept it when it is known this would stop criticism of Israel. This too will probably go to the courts.

    Free speech on Israel under attack in universities

    Courts are the way to beat this.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2017
    Diuretic likes this.
  7. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Messages:
    93,457
    Likes Received:
    14,675
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I am a Liberal Jew and I boycott Israeli settlement products.
     
  8. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    18,965
    Likes Received:
    3,421
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    I don't think they will let you into Israel then.
     
  9. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Messages:
    93,457
    Likes Received:
    14,675
    Trophy Points:
    113
    no, i am actually banned from visiting
     
  10. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    18,965
    Likes Received:
    3,421
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Earlier this

    Ah well, they have a budget of $70,000,000to stop all your delegitimisation!


    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4987758,00.html


     
  11. J.Idallian

    J.Idallian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2017
    Messages:
    1,286
    Likes Received:
    982
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Hrm.

    This is not good.
     
  12. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2013
    Messages:
    42,019
    Likes Received:
    5,395
    Trophy Points:
    113
    70,000,000 / 5,000 a month / 12 months = well over a 1000 people employed for a year to lobby and accumulate information who to target and attack.
     
  13. scarlet witch

    scarlet witch Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2016
    Messages:
    11,951
    Likes Received:
    7,714
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    is this the same as the "gay cake" thing... because then I can see why they want to make it illegal
     
    Bowerbird likes this.
  14. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    18,965
    Likes Received:
    3,421
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Not sure how you are working that one out. What it is about is equating criticism of Israel with antisemitism. A possible good example being the Labour Party in Britain. During Jeremy Corbyn's election for Leader there was a big campaign about him being antisemetic. This is because he supports rights for the Palestinians and always has. He has also throughout his political career been actively opposed to any racism including antisemitism. After a time it appeared to be recognised that they were getting nowhere trying to put the antisemitism tag on him. A New group appeared in the Labour Party - the Labour Jewish Movement. It had a very loose connection to a group which had existed in the past supported by Jews in Labour which had basically died down so this was a new group. The got themselves a Director whose previous job was in the Israeli Embassy whose previous task had been in a working group to stop 'deligitimsation' of Israel through BDS. Most of the people in this Jewish Labour Movement were not Labour Jews rather they were members of Friends of Israel.. Some Labour Jews in fact made a point of saying they had never or very rarely experienced any antisemitism in the Labour Party and some of them started a group Free Speech on Israel to counter the attempt to stop free speech on Israel and to equate antisemitism with criticism of Israel.

    Having failed to get anyone to believe Corbyn was antisemetic, there then came an avalanche of claims of Labour Members being antisemitic including Jewish Members of Labour. These allegations went back years before Corbyn became Leader but the attempt was to blame him for having antisemitism in the Labour Party. A few of these claims held but I think most of them did not. Basically it was done by someone searching for words on their twitter/facebook etc account. This was done mainly by Guido Fawks who had worked on propaganda to get New Labour accepted. Someone was suspended from the Labour Party for antisemitism when what they were doing was discussing a movie - saying the words from it. There was also massive attack on our Universities especially Oxford trying to accuse them of antisemitism. There it appears to have been a set up. The woman who investigated Oxford apologised to the Jewish Labour Movement for not being able to find any Institutional antisemitism in Oxford - as a Member of Free Speech on Israel pointed out - why on earth would someone apologise for not being able to find Institutional antisemitism - you would think they would be pleased.

    The next big issue was what exactly was antisemitism. About ten years ago the European Working definition on Antisemitism came out. Now it was not European at all. It was created in America behind closed doors. It also was never worked on. It had problems in that it claimed that if it was possible that something could be antisemetic then it was to be taken that it was - for instance someone who criticised Israel could be criticising Israel because they were antisemetic. Given that if it could be antisemetic then it was to be treated as if it was, this left a broad brush for stopping all criticism of Israel. Some of our University Unions decided to accept it but after a short time discovered it stopped free speech on Israel, disallowed academic debate. They then called a conference and decided to put that definition in the bin. Shortly after it disappeared from the EU website though I do not think it had ever been taken up officially by the EU. Other countries have taken it up for instance Canada, possibly Australia. The desire seems to have been to get this European Working Definition on Antisemitism accepted throughout the West, The main reason being the potential equation of criticism of Israel with antisemitism.

    So of course new means were needed to get criticism of Israel equated with antisemitism in the UK. The first being the attempt to get courts to agree that criticising Israel was antisemetic. Labour MP John Mann was strongly involved in bringing this case. He also has been strongly involved in the Labour Jewish Movement and in accusing Labour Members of antisemitism. He is not a Jew. As I already said that case failed to bring the desired result.

    So we had the situation where Labour had Jeremy Corbyn as Leader and the Blairites wanted him gone. Local elections were coming up and they suddenly started finding any left wing labour member and his dog antisemetic. They were trying to lose the local elections badly to get rid of Corbyn. Corbyn decided to have an independent investigation into antisemitism in the Labour Party and hired Shami Chakrabrarti, someone very respected in this field. Here is the report.

    Basically the difference now is that the Labour Party under Corbyn believes in treating antisemitism exactly the same as any other kind of racism. It does not believe in calling criticism of Israel antisemitism. People have the same right of free speech over Israel as they do over every other country. People should have the same right to be involved in BDS as they did towards South Africa and so on. Our courts will uphold this. I was listening to Chomsky the other day talking about how now people are calling criticism of America - anti Americanism. He points out how this is the tactic used by totalitarian regimes. Instead of it being seen that the criticism is of the Government it is suggested the criticism is of the people. Now we have the Government and the Labour Jewish Movement (largely non Jews) trying to get a definition of antisemitism which is even stronger in equating antisemitism with criticism of Israel than the European working definition which was abandoned because of its restrictions on free speech was.

    I think at this time it is worth mentioning that Al Jazeera did some infiltration of work done among the different Friends of Israel in the UK. In particular finding that these were in no way grass route groups but indeed were created by the work of someone working from the Israeli Embassy. Their videos also show how they worked to 'Take down' Members of Parliament who had an interest in Palestinian Rights and how they managed to get MP's to ask questions in the House of Commons with a slant in Israel's interests.

    http://freespeechonisrael.org.uk/shaimasot/

    Here is the first of 4 of these videos. They are well worth a watch

     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2017
    scarlet witch and RiaRaeb like this.
  15. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    22,694
    Likes Received:
    11,760
    Trophy Points:
    113
    As a white Irish catholic, I am so favorably amazed that some of the strongest critics of the Israeli government's crimes are liberal jews. Bravo!
     
    Guno likes this.
  16. jimmy rivers

    jimmy rivers Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2017
    Messages:
    2,784
    Likes Received:
    1,115
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Funny how no one in iran, syria or russia can criticise their governments, you're absolutely right.

    Yet Israel has a wild, free-wheeling press. Wow.
     
  17. jimmy rivers

    jimmy rivers Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2017
    Messages:
    2,784
    Likes Received:
    1,115
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Wonderful news, just excellent. The more pressure put on the intransigent arab muslims, the better. Bassem Eid tells the facts:

    http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/view/the-palestinian-case-against-bds

    "Unfortunately, almost all of those so ostensibly dedicated to finding a solution have their own agendas, and these may not be to the advantage of either Palestinians or Israelis. A prime case in point is the boycott, divestment, and sanctions (BDS) movement. As a Palestinian dedicated to working for peace and reconciliation between my people and our Israeli neighbors, I do not believe that the BDS advocates are helping our cause. On the contrary, they are just creating more hatred, enmity, and polarization. There is no connection between the tactics and objectives of the BDS movement and the on-the-ground realities of the Middle East. Israelis continue to come to the West Bank to do business, and most Palestinians continue to buy Israeli goods. Indeed, if you ask Palestinians what they want, they'll tell you they want jobs, secure education, and health. And the people who are failing them in this regard are their own leaders: Fatah in the West Bank, and Hamas in Gaza. The focus of PA leaders is on enriching themselves and their families, rather than serving the interests of the Palestinians. They are not a generation of leaders who are able to bring about a viable end to the conflict. Indeed, they are not even interested in uplifting their own people. Unfortunately, there is no immediate alternative to PA president Mahmoud Abbas, who finds continuous excuses not to hold elections."
     
    Taxonomy26 and 22catch like this.
  18. jimmy rivers

    jimmy rivers Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2017
    Messages:
    2,784
    Likes Received:
    1,115
    Trophy Points:
    113
    When the far left and the anti-semitic bottom feeders decide to put as much pressure on the arab muslims like hamas for oppressing the arabs, and on iran to **** of the situation, THEN they might have a shred of an argument.
     
    Taxonomy26 and Tim15856 like this.
  19. scarlet witch

    scarlet witch Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2016
    Messages:
    11,951
    Likes Received:
    7,714
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    I was merely asking the question because I didn't have time to read the article and I apologise but I also don't have enough time to read your post. Cliff notes is all I can manage right now, I do appreciate the time you've put into this, but it should have been apparent from my post that it was a throw away line
     
    Bowerbird likes this.
  20. Pisa

    Pisa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2016
    Messages:
    4,157
    Likes Received:
    1,889
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    To learn what's in a poster's mind, simply find out who is he quoting.

    Voltaire never said that. A neo-nazi did. An American neo-nazi convicted for possessing child abuse material.

    The company you keep...
     
    The Bear likes this.
  21. Pisa

    Pisa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2016
    Messages:
    4,157
    Likes Received:
    1,889
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    What do you think about 500 Palestinian Arabs losing their well paid jobs at SodaStream following the relocation of the company inside Israel due to pressure from BDS? What have you done for them? What have BDS done for them?

    I have to leave this thread before I choke on the incredibly high levels of hypocrisy.
     
  22. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Messages:
    63,710
    Likes Received:
    13,466
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It is a great quote regardless of who said it. Just because you make engage in ad hom fallacy does not change this fact :)
     
    MVictorP likes this.
  23. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2011
    Messages:
    39,871
    Likes Received:
    11,452
    Trophy Points:
    113

    surely it will be deemed unconstitutional in the courts because you can bet everything you own, the first case will go all the way to SCOTUS while a flurry of injuctions and prohibitions fly around and the media has yet another field day.
     
  24. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    37,994
    Likes Received:
    7,948
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    If they criminalize boycotts against Israel, then they must criminalize boycotts against every other nation.... unless it's modified in some way.
     
  25. Matt84

    Matt84 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2015
    Messages:
    5,896
    Likes Received:
    2,472
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Can we stop sending taxpayer money to this cesspool?
     
    ForumPoster and Liberty4Ransom like this.

Share This Page