US recession fears are growing

Who says I liked the deregulation that contributed to the problem? BTW, Phil Gramm was part of deregulation push.

 

Isn't "deregulation" kind of a scapegoat?

The housing bubble was very big, and had several causes.

Probably immigration and rapid population growth in certain areas played as big of a role as deregulation.
(Shortages of housing fueled a construction boom, and lots of lower income people, rising prices and housing shortages created the conditions for subprime mortgages)

 

There was no huge jump in population.

 

Take a look at California or Los Vegas, or Southern Florida.

The places where the housing bubble was concentrated.

 

We've always had areas of rapid population growth and no housing price bubble.

 

You're being intellectually dishonest, or at least disingenuous.

 

What was your propaganda?

 

No. Reciprocal tariffs is not "mercantilism".

If anyone is engaging in "mercantilism", it is the countries who had higher tariffs than we did.

Oh the EU offered to drop auto tariffs if we dropped ours. I wonder why. I mean that right there shows how you're not really addressing this accurately. This isn't about a tit-for-tat on a single good, it's about the entirety of trade.

You know, like when the EU decided to ban beef imports from the US.

The only argument you've presented so far is that we should allow other countries to place higher tariffs on us, and we should just accept it.

 

Trump's attitude toward trade deficits, his belief that trade is a zero-sum game, and his weaponizing of tariffs to address the trade deficit are all textbook mercantilism. As for your last sentence, you have not paid attention to the arguments I've presented. Namely, you still don't understand that our tariffs HURT US.

 

Any idiot can grow the GDP via an increase to deficit spending. What is difficult is growing GDP while reducing deficit spending. That is economics 101.

 

Mind reading aside, our tariffs on them aren't hurting us as much as the tariffs they're placing on us that you'd like to just ignore.

With regards to China it simply means we buy more goods from countries like Vietnam. With the EU, it means we move towards more free trade or their economy is hurt far worse than ours.

The only thing you're suggesting is status quo, which is far more damaging in the long run. You know, like the last 25 years have shown us.

 

No need for mind reading. I've simply read his actual words. And, no, tariffs tend to hurt the country that places them more than they hurt the "target." As far as "simply" going to other countries, that still economically hurts us. Trump has been offered the chance to "more towards more free trade" with the EU and he has passed. He is the most anti-trade President we've had in modern history. The only thing you and Trump are suggesting is trying to turn economics back about 2.5 centuries.

 

Really. Perhaps you'd provide quotes that back up your allegations concerning his "actual words".

And no, reciprocal tariffs with the goal of opening up markets doesn't hurt us more. That's what a trade deficit is. We're buying more from them than they are buying from us.

No, Trump was offered to drop auto tariffs because the EU wants to protect both their auto exports and the rest of the tariffs they currently have on our non-auto goods.

No, not 2.5 centuries. Just 2.5 decades.

And you still haven't offered anything besides "status quo".

 

The tariffs Presidunce LardBucket announced aren't reciprocal.

 

Of course they are.

They are in response to tariffs that are higher than ours already.

 

My God I thoroughly enjoyed 16 pages of Kazenatsu a known moderate literally destroying every leftist argument and maintains his aplomb even after direct personal attacks. He's just smarter. And he's right Give up already. You can't win an argument against someone who is both smarter and right. Reflect on that

This thread title is misleading. Knew from the get go it was gonna be a Trump hate propaganda fest. Zzzz

 

They aren't "reciprocal." The Chinese steal intellectual property and put up all sorts of non-tariff barriers to foreign producers who want to sell into their market.

We have a trade surplus (goods and services) with most countries. Should they retaliate with tariffs on stuff we make?

https://www.bea.gov/system/files/2019-06/trad-geo-time-series-0419.xlsx

EU tariffs are 1.79% and ours are 1.66%. Also, did you know we have 25% on light trucks?

 

Take a look at this list.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tariff_rate

Their tariffs average 7.5%. Trump is talking 30%. What we need to combat are their non-tariff barriers and theft of intellectual property.

 

N.Y.Feds.Empire State Manufacturing Index just fell 26.4 to a negative 8.6 points.First time since October 2016 that it has gone negative.

 

Note: Bernie Sanders, on the "socialist Left" of the Democratic party, has difficulties with "free-trade". He has mentioned "fair trade". Trump has also spoken of "fair trade". Agreement between Trump and Sanders?

Of course there should be no tariffs at all anywhere, but your Libertarian stance is itself part of the problem, because you are against an international rules-based system which, inter alia, could manage prosperous development in all nations, without recourse to protectionism. Keynes presented such a scheme with his 'clearing union' concept.

Beware of being drawn into the cultural /economic supremacism of people like Steve Bannon, who claims there can be only one winner in the (so far, only) trade war with China...….

 

Something tells me Bernie's idea of "fair trade" isn't exactly the same as Trump's.

(I don't think it's wrong, it's just looking at a different aspect, probably the wages and working conditions of the workers Americans are buying things from)

 

And yet I notice Katzenatsu, a known (moderate?) Libertarian, has a tendency to bypass considerations than don't fit the Libertarian narrative.

Eg, he declined to comment on the substantive part of my post above:

<<"Of course there should be no tariffs at all anywhere, but your Libertarian stance is itself part of the problem, because you are against an international rules-based system which, inter alia, could manage prosperous development in all nations, without recourse to protectionism. Keynes presented such a scheme with his 'clearing union' concept.

Beware of being drawn into the cultural /economic supremacism of people like Steve Bannon, who claims there can be only one winner in the (so far, only) trade war with China...….">>

Reflections?

[My view: the statement of the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights in 1948 changes everything; and certainly the notion of empire, whether it be American or Chinese, must be discarded into the dustbin of history, if we are to deal creatively with the pressing environmental and economic problems facing the world. ]

 

Reciprocal countermeasures are typically what a trading partner imposes when it finds its exports subject to tariffs.

This is a big problem for China which exports much more to US than it imports. It means when Trump raises tariffs on Chinese imports by 10%, China has to hike theirs by much more to achieve the same economic effect.

 

AOC's Green New Deal is certainly offering an alternative for the US, regardless of China's trade practices.
eg unemployment no higher than 2% with zero involuntary underemployment , with a plan to compensate and transit the fossil industry to green.

Outlined in detail here, by Prof. Randall Wray of Levy Economics Institute, N.Y.

http://www.levyinstitute.org/pubs/pn_2018_3.pdf

And speaking of China, if these astounding statistics from Ellen Brown are correct, then the Chinese story has much to commend it:

"The American Dream is alive and well - in China"

https://ellenbrown.com/2019/06/14/the-american-dream-is-alive-and-well-in-china/

Time for the US to get its own house in order, rather than claiming abusive behaviour from an economy (China's) only 60% the size of the US economy, and per capita GDP less than c. 20%.

 

Certainly a worthy and noble concept and will get you many nods of agreement in your favorite coffee bistro from the guys and maybe even laid by more than one woman for being so enlightened for speaking the obvious. Unfortunately your opinion is 100% residing on the wrong planet. Humanity has not evolved enough to embrace this philosophy. Case in point : The United Nations. Absolute corrupt and self serving entity. Every single country on the planet is self absorbed. The United States throwing itself into the proverbial financial abyss is no longer acceptable.

Like many liberal policies your opinion is flawless in its philosophical context and absolutely unable to be practically implemented. I can cite you at least a dozen other perfect liberal ideas when I have time if like that have had the misfortune to become actual law and failed utterly.