Was Jesus born with Original Sin? If so, then he could not be the perfect sacrifice. If not, then he had no human side and was pure god, and god cannot die which, makes the sacrifice a lie. Could these facts be why the Jews have no Original Sin concept in their religion? Is that also why Jews rejected Jesus as their messiah, or did they just recognize the immorality of anyone using a scapegoat and the abdication of one’s responsibility for their actions, which is against all moral legal systems? Why have Christians embraced such an immoral and illegal concept? Regards DL
The sacrifice was a later invention and fundamentally changed Christianity to its core. That Christ was born with god dwelling in him that cannot sin is what made Christ different from ego driven man . He was sinless and was to be the first fruit That god could live in man and reveal Himself through man is the importance of Christ. Christ came to reveal this to the Jews who would spread this good news to mankind . But the message got hijacked and corrupted although the original message survives in the teachings of Christ. This is what I get from reading the NT and its pretty damned clear as to what happened. This idea that god can dwell in man is anathema to the judaism of that era as it is to Islam today. Of course in order for god to dwell in man required a rebirth in man's consciousness, a rebirth that makes it fit to hold the divine. Our house must be clean or He isnt interested.
I agree that the sacrifice was a contrived lie. Jesus did preach that we are all children of god with a spark of god within us all. Jesus asked, I adlib, --- have ye forgotten that ye are gods? Most have. Jesus, like many Jews, put man above god as they knew that all the gods were man made. Regards DL
He put man above god because he knew god was man made? Sorry but that isnt true. But it does look like he knew the image that man had of god was wrong . He revealed that god can live in man and reveal hinself in this dimension through man. This had been rejected by judaism for to them god was separate and man was too imperfect to be a vessel that could house god. There was man and there was god period. Christ taught the opposite and that if there was a rebirth of consciousness god could then live in man and among humanity exercising his love and goodness through man. This was the good news to humanity And a reconciliation of man to god. That is the understanding that I got from studying his teaching
Certainly that is the teaching of the Gospel of John - you have pretty much described the Logos concept. I don't think we can say the same about Mark/Matt as easily though.
I am just basing it on the words of Christ . I once had a book that just listed what he said taken from the 4 gospels but also included Thomas . I had no dog in the hunt given I am agnostic. But it seemed obvious that a Christianity based upon what Christ taught is not what Christianity is. And that would explain the horrible history of the RCC and even protestant beliefs. Something happened early on to move it away from what Christ actually taught. A mystery indeed.
Agreed - I think the best one can do is take the good stuff out - like Jefferson did - leave the rest to the realm of the unknown. One thing I am fairly sure he taught - and it matters not if Jesus didn't because others did - was the Golden Rule - and according to the Gospels - he stressed this rule more than any other. Unfortunately - Christianity got too caught up in other dogma - more based on self interest - and forgot about the Golden Rule - except when speaking in platitudes.
I agree. If every Christian on earth lived by the golden rule that would over time literally change the world for the better. Yet in order for people to live by the golden rule demands a change in consciousn given it is our ordinary consciousness that will not allow humanity to live by that rule We are too selfish to live by that basic simple rule. Is there any religion that stresses the golden rule above all else? Nope unless there is a small Christian sect that I am unaware of.
some interesting reading about original sin and why JC did not have any: Saint Thomas Aquinas rejected the Immaculate Conception, saying if the Virgin Mary had been sanctified before her conception, she would not have needed the redemption of Christ concluding that "Blessed Virgin was sanctified after animation".[27] Aquinas distinguished between first time of conception, animation and birth: with the word "conception" is meant the first time of life of the human body, caused by the parents' union (except for the Virgin birth of Jesus), whereas the term "animation" indicates the following time where a soul is believed to be created by God, and then by Him unified together with the human body. The person exists only when the body has received its own soul. Latin Summa theologica affirms: Ad secundum dicendum, quod si numquam anima B[eatae] Virginis fuisset contagio originalis peccat inquinata, hoc derogaret dignitati Christi, secundum quam est universalis omnium Salvator. Et ideo sub Christo, qui salvari non indiguit, tamquam universalis Salvator, maxima fuit B. Virginis puritas. Nam Christus nullo modo contraxit originale peccatum sed in ipsa suae conceptionis fuit sanctus, secundum illud Luc., I, 35: «Quod ex te nascetur sanctum, vocabitur filius Dei». Sed B. Virgo contraxit quidem originale peccatum, sed ab eo fuit mundatam antequam ex utero nasceretur.[28] If the soul of the Blessed Virgin had never incurred the stain of the original sin, this would be derogatory to the dignity of Christ, by reason of His being the universal Saviour of all. Consequently, after Christ, who, as the universal Saviour of all, needed not to be saved, the purity of the Blessed Virgin holds the highest place. For Christ did not contract the original sin in any way whatever, but was holy in His very Conception, according to Luke 1:35: "The Holy which be born of thee, shall be called the Son of God". But the Blessed Virgin did indeed contract original sin, but was cleansed therefrom before her birth from the womb.[29]
The Romans needed a religion that was easier and could be applied to more adherents of a multinational empire.
'Original Sin' is a dogmatic concept that I find deeply flawed. It insinuates that God intended for humans to stay as ignorant helpless children or pets in Eden for all eternity and do absolutely nothing with their devinely inspired creativity and Free Will. That doesn't make any sense.
This is an interesting question. Christianity should be that religious - were it to follow the teachings of Christ - but - it does not. I am wondering about Buddhism - could we not say that the Golden Rule is implicit in the doctrine of Karma ?
Close but no cigar. Then again, not bad thinking. Jesus knew that the gods were man made thanks to his esoteric side. I think that is clear thanks to his words on justifying working the Sabbath. I adlib Jesus. The Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath. From that, I see Jesus also saying that organized religions are also made for man and not man for them. The esoteric Jesus preached that we could be just like him, and that does not mean supernatural. The Jewish Oral Tradition has always led Jewry and that puts man above god. Jesus asked, have ye forgotten that ye are gods? Most have and have even given up gaining a Christ mind. Here is the real way to salvation that Jesus taught. Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light. John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Allan Watts explain those quotes in detail. Regards DL
Perhaps the mystery is part of the Noble Lie of governments not wanting to tell us that it is stupid to believe in the supernatural. That or Constantine changed everything when he bought his new church and sent the inquisitions out to burn and kill for god. I see the church as corrupted almost from the get go but Constantine gave it it's push towards the Satan worshipers it is now, given that they adore a genocidal prick of a god. It is so stupid to read myths literally. Regards DL
Are there no gays or women in your family? They might think you should have a dog in the race as they might think that for the evils of homophobia and misogyny to grow, all we have to do is not have a dog in the race. Regards DL
That speaks of so much that no one can ever know as the truth. That is why I used logic and reason in my O.P. The bible itself kills the notion of Original Sin by saying we are all responsible for our own sins and that sins are not passed from father to son. That is what Jesus, as a Rabbi, taught. Regards DL
No. He is the originator. Do you recognize, if a Christian, that your Easter hymn calls Adam's sin a happy fault and necessary to god's plan. Do you see it that way? Regards DL
Lazy. Dim. https://www.google.ca/search?sxsrf=...hUKEwj56_jo14bpAhUMiqwKHSFND24Q4dUDCAg&uact=5 Regards DL
