Was the confederacy of the U.S. worse than the Nazis?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Tererun, Dec 27, 2017.

  1. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    What about the United States where there was legal slavery of almost 100 years including throughout the Civil War and even after?
     
  2. ScotchCAOgold

    ScotchCAOgold Active Member

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    Hahaha you keep getting farther from the truth with every response. Clearly no intention to have a real discussion about this.
     
  3. ScotchCAOgold

    ScotchCAOgold Active Member

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    Yes it has
     
  4. Tererun

    Tererun Well-Known Member

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    Yes, black slaves were killed in both the south and the north young man, and you will probably learn that when you get to sixth grade history class. Are there other elementary history lessons I can help you with before you put down the keyboard and let the people who have gone through history class continue with their discussion so we do not have to talk about things that should be common knowledge? I am hoping this does not offend you, but if we have to start from a place where one of us needs to learn it was not illegal to kill your property in the good old days of slavery, and many slave owners did. The interesting thing about slaves 's because they are human if you have a male and a female one mate you would have gotten free slaves. They just pop right out like how a farmer gets more cows or chickens so he can kill them and sell them.

    As a matter of fact it was so important to be able to kill slaves because they might outnumber white people and kill them that white people made up the second amendment and militias so that they would always be allowed to have guns at the ready to put down any slave uprisings. Unlike cows and chickens slaves posed a threat to the dominance of their masters.

    My it has been fun playing let's go say things every educated person already knows.
     
  5. Tererun

    Tererun Well-Known Member

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    Well I do not see it so please do prove it.
     
  6. ScotchCAOgold

    ScotchCAOgold Active Member

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    -Black Lives Matter protests have been monitored by the US government and have been seen as a potential threat, according to recently released documents from the FBI and the US Department of Homeland Security (DHS).
    -The FBI assesses it is very likely Black Identity Extremists perceptions of police brutality against African Americans spurred an increase in premeditated retaliatory lethal violence against law enforcement
    -Marchers using a BLM banner were recorded in a video chanting, "Pigs in a blanket, fry 'em like bacon" at the Minnesota State Fair
    -Deroy Murdock questioned statistics stated by some BLM activists over the rate at which black people are killed by police. Murdock wrote, "the notion that America's cops simply are gunning down innocent black people is one of today's biggest and deadliest lies."
    -For the purpose of creating a racially bias emotional argument, BLM used the phrase “hands up don’t shoot” which was discredited .
    -Former FBI Director James Comey suggested that the Black Lives Matter movement is partly leading to a national rise in crime rates
    -A study published by the Justice Department, said there was an increase in homicides in 56 large cities over the course of 2015, and examined the "Ferguson effect" as one of three explanations
    -BLM disproportionately focus on events involving police and whites, instead of the far greater cases of deaths by blacks.....other blacks.
    -“The SPLC sued the [Klu Klux Klan] and won a large judgment because it convinced a jury that the Klan was fomenting violence around the country. Whatever the Klan did, however the Klan did it, it is plain to see that Black Lives Matter encourages the same violence with two big differences: 1) People actually listened to BLM. 2) There was tons and tons of violence associated with BLM activities all over the country.”
    -Charlotte, North Carolina. A member of the U.S. armed forces was out for a night of rest and relaxation with a few friends. They did not know they were soon to be in the middle of a Black Lives Matter protest, where at least one of the protestors peeled off from the group to punch him in the face and break some bones in his face.
    Police refused to return to the scene of the crime to help him ID his attacker. No one was arrested. Though hundred of Black Lives Matter protestors were close enough to see it. No one said a thing.
    -A gang of seven men — five black, two white — chanted “Black Lives Matter” before viciously attacking a group of white men Tuesday.
    -Tim Pool released a YouTube video explaining that he would no longer be covering racial unrest in Milwaukee due to the fact that he looked white and that whites were being targeted by violent Black Lives Matter protesters. He witnessed one white man who had been shot in the neck.
    -Video footage from the Milwaukee race riots appeared to show blacks literally hunting whites for sport.
    -The Philadelphia chapter of Black Lives Matter has banned white people from attending an upcoming meeting, arguing that the group’s events are “black centered.”
    “This is a black only space,” the organization posted on its Facebook event page.
    -“White people can support us but they cannot attend our meetings.”
    -WMStudents affiliated with the Black Lives Matter movement crashed an event at the College of William & Mary, rushed the stage, and prevented the invited guest—the American Civil Liberties Union's Claire Gastañaga, a W & M alum—from speaking.
    -only 43 percent of voters have a positive view of BLM, while more than half of voters—some 57 percent—have an “unfavorable view” of the organization.
    -if local and national BLM activists keep saying, “hands up, don’t shoot” — the lie that launched the Ferguson riots — or falsely claiming that Charlotte’s Keith Lamont Scott was holding a book and not a gun when Charlotte police shot him, then the blame for the riots and violence that follow rests with them, not with police.
    -Former Chicago Superintendent of Police Garry McCarthy said Sunday that the Black Lives Matter movement was ultimately responsible for rising crimes rates in his city
    -BLM platform calls for “reparations for past harms”
    -Platform calls for guaranteed education, minimum wage, corporate reparations, govt reparations, and direct economy and govt control for blacks only
    - “no justice, no peace,”
    -Black Lives Matter supporters chanted, “What do we want? Dead cops. When do we want it? Now.

    All i have time to add right now. Thousands more examples
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2018
  7. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    What is the question?
     
  8. InanimateCarbonRod

    InanimateCarbonRod Well-Known Member

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    He hasn't exactly tried to keep it a secret.
     
  9. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    You>> Pretty much this. The Confederacy was bad and is indefensible. Indeed, it is a source of wonder and not a little disgust that people continue to defend it.

    Do you apply the same standard and critique? That was pretty obvious.
     
  10. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    ROFL oh now we have to try and get dismissive, and you will probably learn that when you get to sixth grade history class.

    My sixth grade history class was in 1957 when they actually taught factual history.

    As I said when they taught factual history. Slaves were VALUABLE PROPERTY they weren't as the Jews a race/ethnicity one group wanted exterminated.

    Running away already? White flag noted :truce:
     
  11. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    No, it wasn't. This is a thread comparing the Confederacy to Nazi Germany. It wasn't clear if you were after that comparison or another.

    If I wanted to be as rude as you I could simply point out that the Confederacy was obviously different to the USA so obviously the critique is different. However, I'm not that rude without reason, so I'll offer you the clarity that you seemed to have trouble mustering.

    The USA was not founded to defend the principle that people should be allowed to own other people as property. The Confederacy was (that was the 'States Right' they wanted to protect. They were very clear on the point). Indeed, there is a good argument that the foundational principles of the USA, which were a revolutionary advance for notions of individual rights, should have had no place for chattel slavery. Unfortunately principle always hits reality at some point. With a number of the 'Founding Fathers' owning slaves and the major slave holding states prepared to turn their back on the Revolution if slavery was threatened it proved impossible to create a nation that truly lived up to its fundamental creeds.

    Slavery was a stain on what was in so many was a remarkable and admirable nation, but its existence doesn't define the USA. It does define the Confederacy, so the judgement is different.
     
  12. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    It is about slavery which was also legal and practiced in the North.

    Nothing rude about my question.

    It was founded with slavery intact and with Jim Crowe and the Great Compromise and other laws concerning legal slavery. Slavery was legal in the United States before the Confederacy, during the Confederacy and after the Confederacy.

    A stain on the United States and I challenge you to go to Washington DC and observe how slavery defined the United States. You cannot hardly get through any exhibit or museum without a section devoted to it. To think that the Confederacy established slavery on this contitnent and is responsible for all slavery that ever existed her. The Confederacy only exist for 5 years. Prior to that the slavery in those states existed in the United States and that includes the slave states that stayed in the union. And let's not forget Lincoln's intention was not to end slavery but to bring those slaves states back INTO the United States with their slavery intact. That is what the Civil War was about, reunification not ending slavery.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2018
  13. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    Your views are duly noted.
     
  14. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  15. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    Reunification and preservation of the Union dominated Lincoln's political activity.

    He perceived slavery as an inevitable cancer in the American republic and intended to murder it in any way that he could. That is why he threatened, challenged, blackmailed, and otherwise bullied enough members of Congress to ratify the 13th Amendment at the end of January 1865.
     
  16. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    So why not compare the United States to the Nazis if you are going to do so based on the slavery that existed here? The title of the tthread should more accurately read "Was the United States worse than the Nazis"
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2018
  17. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    That was after the war and he had declared slaves in Confederate zones of control free, he left those in the United States still in slavery. The fact is the Civil War was fought to keep those slave states wwhich had suceeded, some didn't, in the Union with their slavery intact and Lincoln sent federal troops to ensure that.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2018
  18. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    All of the actions to bring the end of slavery to the states occurred before the end of the war. The necessary states ratified the 13th by the end of 1865.

    Mr. Lincoln left those slaves in the Union and the US controlled portions alone because he needed the border states in forcing the South back into the Union. Looking at Lincoln's actions, the Senate's actions, and the House's actions pertaining to slavery, the common sense person realizes that Lincoln and allies intended to murder slavery. They did.

    As far as the OP goes, the answer is that the Nazis were worse than the Confederates. That does not excuse the effort to create a new nation based on and because of slavery. The Confederacy, in light of all that happened, got off luckily.
     
  19. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    Personally I think comparing the US to Nazi Germany is unfair, which I why I didn't do it. I also think comparing the Confederacy with Nazi Germany is wide of the mark, and I said so. However, if you feel its a reasonable comparison then have at it. Clearly I have a more positive view of your nation than you do.
     
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  20. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    What is the distinction you are attempting to make between slavery in the United States for almost 100 years and the slavery in the brief 5 year life of the Confederacy? And I am not the one making the comparison, I am the one challenging it as with the fallacious nonsense that black africans were being exterminated here for the purpose of wiping them off the face of the earth.
     
  21. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    I have already made that clear. Repeating myself is boring. If you didn't understand what I wrote then I can't help you.

    I'm not the one making the comparison either, so why are you wasting my time telling me about it?
     
  22. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    What do you think would have happened, had the Southern states no seceded, once machinery which could do the work of hundreds of slave laborers came along at a fraction of the cost of maintaining a slave based farm/plantation?
    And the North did wage a bloody war to end slavery it waged a bloody war to keep the slave states which did secede IN THE UNION with their slavery intact. The north needed that slave labor as much as did the South they just didn't want large numbers of black africans in their mist and preferred the white European slaves of indentured servitude.
     
  23. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    You've made no meaningful distinctions at all because the are none. You tried with this

    But that is historically inaccurate the United States was founded WITH slavery including the Great Compromise.

    I'm asking you about comparison between slavery in the Confederacy and the United States.
     
  24. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    This is going around in very, very boring circles.

    I have made my views clear. Apparently you didn't get the answer you wanted or you are just incapable of understanding the answer I gave you (I'm betting option two). Sucks for you, nuthin' to do with me.

    I'm sure that if you hassle enough people you'll get the chance to spout whatever speech you have just waiting in there, or spring the 'gotcha' moment that will 'prove' you are right about whatever it is you are convinced you are right about. I literally couldn't care less.

    Find someone else's time to waste with your trolling.
     
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  25. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    The North had no desire to preserve Southern slavery intact in the Union, or there would have been no 13th Amendment. The North did not need slave labor, only agricultural labor. In lieu of slavery, share cropping as a system was developed and brutalized the white and black peasantry.
     

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