WATCH: Phoenix Cops Kill Man after Responding to Noise Complaint over Video Game

Not at all, you're the one in denial, the cover officer's footage shows he was justified. No one murdered anyone, the cover officer killed the suspect because he had a gun and raised it towards the contact officer. You must put yourself in their shoes.

 

Yes, so the barrel is pointed forwards.

 

Like what? The footage shows the gunman bringing the pistol around from the small of his back to his side with the barrel pointed towards the contact officer.

 

No, the video shows NOTHING remotely like what you are fallaciously alleging!

 

You can see the barrel in the footage?

 

You are willfully ignoring anything you don't want to hear. I've responded many times in this thread to say that I am a former cop. I have been in life or death situations professionally and personally. I can not only put myself in BOTH of the officers' shoes; I have been in both positions*.

AGAIN, I completely understand why it's difficult to accept that a cop murdered this man. It's much, much easier to blame the victim because the only alternative is to admit that someone sworn to "SERVE AND PROTECT" made a fatal mistake.

Edited to add - * I have never watched my partner murder a civilian. I meant that I've been in the 1st and 2nd positions as an officer.

 

The gun was NOT in the man's hand when he was murdered. That is clear in the each recording. The body's reflexes would have caused it to discharge if his finger was on the trigger (which it couldn't have been since it was already on the floor of the entryway to the apartment). The ONLY shots fired were from the LEO.

 

You have duplicated that situation? Domestic disturbance, armed man answers the door? You saw motion that indicated to you the weapon was being brought to bear on your partner?

 

The weapon was not being brought on anyone's partner. The man clearly went to surrender when he saw it was cops at his door. He immediately went to lay the weapon down on the floor of the entryway. His arms were in the air when he was murdered.

 

I think he was trying to put the gun on the floor but it was still in his hand when he was shot.

 

I saw the tip of his weapon touch the floor and he went to raise his right arm after releasing the gun which explains why it was not thrown forward when he fell.

The fact the guy had a weapon might indicate it wasn't the best neighborhood but I can't think of any other reason the cop already had his weapon drawn. I haven't seen or heard anything that would explain that preemptive strike though.

 

It shows exactly that.

 

No but I can see him bring the gun around the side of his body, again, try it in the mirror, see how it looks.

 

He didn't murder anyone, he had a genuinely held belief and that belief was reasonable in the circumstances. I'm simply pointing out what is shown on the footage.

 

No it's not, watch the cover officer's footage, he sees him bringing the gun around from the small of his back to the side as if raising it towards contact officer. The whole dead man grip thing is largely a myth, depends how you're hit.

 

I'm afraid I don't believe you are ex-LEO, you couldn't think like this if you were. You can see that if you're the contact officer but you must only watch cover officer's viewpoint and see things from his perspective.

 

From the contact officer's viewpoint, you must only watch from the cover officer's. The officer's don't draw their weapons until they see the gun.

 

Only in your IMAGINATION because NO ONE else can see what you are IMAGINING is in the video.

 

After watching it again it is still not clear that he put the weapon down. Here are some questions I can't answer, was the gun in his hand when he opened the door or in his waistband at the small of his back? I thought it was in his hand but it really looks as if it was in his waistband. Why would he see a cop and then draw a gun? If he had it in his hand then why reach to the small of his back? I did not see his right hand in the air as you claim. He absolutely had a gun, no question he went to the small of his back with his right hand and no question that he brought that hand from the small of his back around his body to the front. What I don't see clearly is the gun and at what point it was on the floor.
I think the two most dangerous jobs a cop has are domestic disturbance and traffic stops. They never know who they are going to deal with or what frame of mind the individual will be in. The one certainty is that whatever happens will happen at high speed and there are only moments to make the right choice.

A better option for the civilian might have been to open the door just enough to see who was there rather than just step out armed and becoming a perceived threat to police officers who are already on alert.

I think either it was a series of tragic mistakes made by the civilian but he was not murdered.

 

Are you the shooting officer? How in the world do you know what that officer BELIEVED?

You flagrantly dismiss anything that disagrees with your point of view. You hold to your position completely ignoring all the evidence to the contrary.

Your belief about my former position as an LEO is your opinion. I don't believe you are "reasonable" as your username suggests and that's my opinion.

Everything would work in everybody's favor if we could all COMPLETELY ignore anything that disproves our point of view. That's not how real life works.

 

He lowered the gun as he lowered his body. He began to raise his right arm (the left one was already up) to stand back up when he was shot.

I believe the gun was in his waistband and he had his hand on it when he opened the door.

I believe he was poised to draw the weapon and went to put it down once he saw it was the police.

As a former LEO and child of a retired Chicago cop, DV are the most difficult (unknowns) for officers. No doubt they have minutes, if not seconds, to make a judgment call. I believe the cop in this incident made a mistake.

My impression is they were in a "bad" neighborhood. The man opened his door poised to use his weapon and the cops were poised for something as well. Unless they had a history with him (which would have been relayed by the dispatcher and I didn't hear anything of the sort), there is no other explanation as to why the officer had his weapon drawn.

I strongly believe that both the civilian and cop made mistakes.

 

Watch it again. His right hand was at his side and initially I thought the gun was in it but he immediately went to the small of his back and from the other body cam it looked as if the gun was in his waistband and he drew it out. I agree that mistakes were what got him killed but I don't think it can be called murder or that the officer should be disciplined. It was not malicious or intended, it was just the result of the compounded mistakes. He followed his training and the shooting was based on a split second decision from what he was seeing.

 

A person would have to be suicidal to pull a weapon on a cop. I think he opened the door, put his hand toward his back in one motion and immediately went to lower it when he realized it was LEOs.

With that said, I didn't read EVERY response in this thread, BUT I would be shocked if anybody even hinted this was malicious. I don't know the statistics but I highly doubt that any LEO involved in a shooting did it with malice. I honestly believe this was just a mistake, BUT even mistakes have to be accounted for. At the very least, the officers involved need more training.

 

The gun was in his hand, barrel pointing down, at the moment he opened the door

 

You're right and that was my initial view as well. Why he went to his back is hard to figure.