This is open for discussion. Not a lot to say by me since it's said so well in the article. Source is: This article appeared in Florida Today this morning, July 6, 2018. I thought it relevant enough to forward it to all of you. For those of you who thought I might have singled you out, you would be wrong. Bob Vander Plaats is the president and CEO of The FAMILY LEADER. Follow him on Twitter: @bobvanderplaats
That's all fine and I agree. But there is one factor here that doesn't cover. My problem with trump is not political. It is personal. This is an assault on the nation and everything decent. It is a crime that he sits in office. People can talk all they want about Democrats, and in some cases I might agree, but trump is a different animal. As far as I'm concerned, until trump is removed or leaves, this is a war against America. And there is no compromise. I don't care why you like him. I don't care what you think he wants to do or will do. I don't care how much you hate O and H. I know evil when I see it. Trump is evil. This ends, or we end the union, or we go to war. Take your pick. The majority of the nation will not tolerate this; especially as trump continues to make power grabs, alienate our allies, and lavish praise on and cuddle with the most evil people in the world. You do know that trump thinks he can pardon himself, right? That is a king, a dictator, a despot, not a President.
And I'm not alone. Even people like former CIA and NSA chief Hayden, are concerned that the nation will not survive trump. He is out to destroy the nation and create a new one in his sick and twisted image. And everyone who supports trump is choosing evil as a means to an end.
I refuse the offer of your trap. I will engage you on just one thing. The pardon. What does the constitution limit the presidents pardon to? Can you handle that civilly? I hope so. I truly hope you do.
I see no evidence that Trump is evil. For example he has relieved almost all of this nation as to what earnings get taken from them. As to our allies, he is tougher by far than past presidents. But the allies earned this.
I'm far to be perfect, rather the opposite because I must admit, I'm a bad example, but you can't say "if", "when", conservative have from their own point of view their own reasons to be angry against liberals. Trump is a kind of revenge. Politeness isn't a detail, it's an answer. You says that Trump is evil, I don't see him as more evil than Bush or Obama, probably less. He is still a politician, and I don't trust any people of this kind.
If he pardons himself, he gets impeached. Personally, I don't think a sitting President can be charged in a normal court system. He can only be tried for impeachment. Now, after impeachment, he can be tried for crimes done while President, but the next President can pardon him. Without the impeachment, that's basically what Ford did for Nixon.
of course you do. meanwhile in another thread, a GOPer keeps calling me a "liar". so much for civility
If you've ever seen trump and his crowd when he's throwing them red meat at one of his rallies you can see the bar for civility has been set extremely low. The leader sets the 'tone' and it's for damn sure the tone has been set by trump.
At one time, civility was possible, although didn't often happen. That ended some time ago--sometime in the late 1980s/early 1990s. Now it's close to impossible.
Lately, I have really been trying to be civil. I noticed I was becoming what I dislike, rude and venomous. But it is kind of hard to keep civility when folks open a thread by calling the president and all of his supporters nasty names and accuse anyone who disagrees with them of bad intentions.
Trump was lawfully elected. Until the left grows up we are always going to have problems. War on America? Evil? Jobs Economy Peace negotiations support of our Military lower taxes pride in our country Lefties view this as evil and want to end the union? mmmm how about we give you guys California and you fend for yourselves? Most of you are there anyways and the rest can cross your one way border.
Of course we can you idiot. Seriously though, the article makes a good point (that everyone seems to have ignored). The key in that case was the meeting face-to-face, having normal interactions with another human being regardless of their politics. Much of the aggression and lack of civility in political discussions comes down to dehumanising of opponents, be it inadvertent (such as when discussing with faceless strangers online) or intentional, where people go out of their way to paint their political opponents as inhuman monsters and avoid anything that could bring humanity to their debate. The two individuals mentioned in that article should be celebrated by us all for what they did and many more of us could do well to follow their example.
I think people have a greater capacity for civility then politicians who rely on incivility to drum up support against the 'enemy'.
Some people cannot disagree and be civil because they want to control everyone else. They believe their ideology is the only acceptable one and all others - and their supporters - must be eliminated. Just look at how the "progressives" have responded to this thread.
Ford is a great example of the power of pardon. A way that a president having power to pardon himself is contained in the impeachment clause. Where he is allowed to be prosecuted upon removal from office. If he could pardon himself, he never could be impeached. ' Trump has not committed crimes during his time as president.
I vastly support civility. I wonder if the Mods turned all of the posters loose what would happen? Would it denigrate to a jungle out there? It is not as bad here as other places. Even the vaunted PBS newshour chat during the newsprogram gets rough and tumble. There are no mods there and it's no holds barred. Still it seems more sane than one might think it would. I agree with what you say too. This topic was not intended to have posters tee off on Trump since they do it daily on all other topics. I hoped to find more who truly wanted civility so thank you for your desire it be civil. I support you.
I like to toss in I spent decades as a Democrat and try not to make my posts a hell to read due to taunts or insults. When I haul off and taunt and insult, i will keep reading the post and often delete it to say something nicer. I have returned to my posts and edited them well past my post since my goal is not to make posters angry.
Several days back the local SF Bay Area news stated that my part of CA has achieved the rank of 20th most powerful economy on the planet. That the entire state rose back to number 5. I recall years back when we were then number 5 so i tend to expect it.
