We Need Factories for Making Products and Not for Making Jobs

Discussion in 'Economics & Trade' started by expatpanama, Mar 22, 2017.

  1. Ndividual

    Ndividual Well-Known Member

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    In my opinion, anyone who lacks the resources necessary to sustain their life without help from government/charity should be counted as either unemployed or underemployed. And it needs to be recognized as fact that some choose to remain underemployed as some government assistance programs only begin to reduce benefits once the recipient begins to earn more than some predetermined amount.
    Put another way, we have about 50-60 million unemployed American consumers who are living beyond their means, resulting in increasing debt and taxes requiring government induced offsetting inflation which raises the cost of living for both the employed and the unemployed and reducing our ability to compete in a growing world market system.
     
  2. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    From the government webpage;

    Who is counted as unemployed?
    People are classified as unemployed if they do not have a job, have actively looked for work in the prior 4 weeks, and are currently available for work. Actively looking for work may consist of any of the following activities:

    • Contacting:
      • An employer directly or having a job interview
      • A public or private employment agency
      • Friends or relatives
      • A school or university employment center
    • Submitting resumes or filling out applications
    • Placing or answering job advertisements
    • Checking union or professional registers
    • Some other means of active job search
    Who is not in the labor force?
    As mentioned previously, the labor force is made up of the employed and the unemployed. The remainder—those who have no job and are not looking for one—are counted as not in the labor force. Many who are not in the labor force are going to school or are retired. Family responsibilities keep others out of the labor force. Since the mid-1990s, typically fewer than 1 in 10 people not in the labor force reported that they want a job.

    A series of questions is asked each month of persons not in the labor force to obtain information about their desire for work, the reasons why they had not looked for work in the last 4 weeks, their prior job search, and their availability for work. These questions include the following (the bolded words are emphasized when read by the interviewers).

    1. Do you currently want a job, either full or part time?
    2. What is the main reason you were not looking for work during the last 4 weeks?
    3. Did you look for work at any time during the last 12 months?
    4. Last week, could you have started a job if one had been offered?
    These questions form the basis for estimating the number of people who are not in the labor force but who are considered to be marginally attached to the labor force. These are individuals without jobs who are not currently looking for work (and therefore are not counted as unemployed), but who nevertheless have demonstrated some degree of labor force attachment. Specifically, to be counted as marginally attached to the labor force, they must indicate that they currently want a job, have looked for work in the last 12 months (or since they last worked if they worked within the last 12 months), and are available for work. Discouraged workers are a subset of the marginally attached. Discouraged workers report they are not currently looking for work for one of the following types of reasons:

    • They believe no job is available to them in their line of work or area.
    • They had previously been unable to find work.
    • They lack the necessary schooling, training, skills, or experience.
    • Employers think they are too young or too old, or
    • They face some other type of discrimination.
     
  3. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    I don't see any impetus for change in the status of these 50-60 million Americans...do you?

    Interesting today reading about Steve Ballmer's new webpage which tries to show where taxpayer dollars are spent he discovers that 23.2 million Americans are currently working for local, state or federal government. Wonder if we'll ever know how many of these are essential...
     
  4. Ndividual

    Ndividual Well-Known Member

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    Sadly, no. The only change I expect is the size of this voting bloc to grow larger and demand more from government.
    If only we could shut down one Federal agency at a time we might find that a great many are unneeded or redundant.
     
  5. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    It's a self-fulfilling prophecy when so many people cannot support themselves...greater demand on government. Shutting down government, or reducing government, has a direct effect on those 23.2 million Americans, and a negative collateral effect on the economy, and for many will increase demands for government assistance. An equal or perhaps worse problem is the federal government is using debt money to fund local and state governments! We are taxed and taxed at city, county and state levels but rarely are we paying our way so free federal debt money is handed out like popcorn. Of course all of this debt spending is creating jobs but they are not sustainable jobs...
     
  6. Kenny Naicuslik

    Kenny Naicuslik Member

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    Except for the fact that humans can't fairly compete with machines because the government forces them to not take less than the minimum wage, which means that machines are artificially more viable. If we abolish government interventions like these both the producer and the labourers would be better off.
     
  7. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    There are lots of things that can make automation more viable over humans...wages are just one thing...
     
  8. Ndividual

    Ndividual Well-Known Member

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    Just take a look at the price of automobiles that involve a large amount of human labour.
     
  9. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Look at your iPhone, or flat screen, or even your car, and just about everything else today, and pay close attention to the design and miniaturization and technology, and you will quickly ascertain that there's very little of these products that humans can actually build. Most require very sophisticated production equipment and processes, all with great precision. And machines don't whine, always show up to work, produce the same amount every day, with the same quality, with almost no scrap, never go on strike, and don't require health care and sick leave and vacation...
     
  10. Ndividual

    Ndividual Well-Known Member

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    Much of what we have available at the market today would not exist at all or only in very small quantity and at very high cost/price were it not for automation.
    The true necessities have never been so abundant and affordable as they are today.
     
  11. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    I have no problem with technology and automation since it was my life during my career. However, too many Americans get pushed out of the workplace then do little to nothing to learn new marketable job skills, then complain to the government to solve THEIR problems. Americans must do whatever is required to remain employed and earn a living! Yes it's hard, and frustrating, and requires extra work and focus, and some sacrifices, but doing nothing then complaining to government doesn't work...
     
  12. WeekDayCross

    WeekDayCross Member

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    Creating automobiles, lorries etc just means people, jobs and products are all in the wrong place and they just create congestion pollution and wasted hours just sitting in or driving vehicles. Why should we transport products to distant places and then receive similar products from there to here. Manufacture as far as possible locally for local needs.
     
  13. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    It's obvious...people are not content and/or satisfied with local...they require tomatoes in the winter and kiwi in the summer and fish all year long. When you can change people's entitlement to gratification then you might have a shot at creating and consuming local. BTW; it's impossible to create consumer products locally...because of myriad reasons they will forever be manufactured around the globe...
     
  14. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    And they require highly trained people to operate and maintain them and they get paid very good wages to do so.
     
  15. Ndividual

    Ndividual Well-Known Member

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    In the end, workers are paid for the value of the work they perform, not the price of the product they are participating in the production of and highly skilled, skilled, or the available supply of persons capable of performing the function required allows employers to find employees willing to work for wages which they have a demand for based upon the supply available.
     
  16. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    In some news article I read this past week was a single sentence that stood out; Chinese kids have a lot of stress doing homework and studying until 10PM in order to obtain a great education. My immediate thought was how many American kids understand the value of a good education? And, it's obvious that when China has 1.3 billion population, they are probably developing 10's of millions of smart school kids, and they are the ones who will be filling the world's jobs when highly trained workers are required...
     
  17. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    The key point is those who are highly trained will be working while millions of other Americans will be begging Trump and the government to solve all of their problems...
     
  18. WeekDayCross

    WeekDayCross Member

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    I did say as far as possible. There are many items which can be produced locally and food grown locally which do not incur transport miles. Also locally sourced building materials add character to the locality and prevents everywhere on earth looking the same. People are not entitled to gratification, they have to work intelligently for it, which includes stewardship of the Earth's resources and not moving them about because they are in the wrong place.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2017
  19. Ndividual

    Ndividual Well-Known Member

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    On the emboldened, I agree.
    If there are inadequate resources in a location to create employment, people need to move.
     
  20. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Well...when you use the word 'locally' and talk about producing goods and services, this simply is not going to happen in 90% of rural USA.

    It would be great if most Americans truly cared about Earth but fact is most could care less. We can't even achieve a consensus on the stewardship of Earth. The president of the USA does not believe in science or inconvenient things like global climate change!

    IMO today instant gratification rules...
     
  21. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    14% of Americans, or about 46 million, are spread across 72% of the rural areas. I'm guessing we won't find many factories in this 72%, therefore, those who desire more than a job working at Ace Hardware MUST do two things; obtain marketable educations and relocate to the job centers...
     

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