Western Europe in Decline

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by kazenatsu, Aug 6, 2022.

  1. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Hungarian President Orbán warned that the West is subjecting itself to "suicide waves" of decline in the form of self-inflicted economic wounds, mass migration and an obsession with identity politics.

    Orbán Warns West is Subjecting Itself to “Suicide Waves” of Decline – Summit News

    Is Orbán right?

    Traditionally Western Europe has had a higher standard of living than Eastern Europe, but I don't think anyone can deny the living standards in the West have been going down over last 20 years. Homelessness is rampant in the streets of Paris now, whereas it was virtually non-existent 30 years ago. There are protests in France over the declining standards of living, with rents becoming unaffordable in the Paris region (Paris is the economic hub of France where all the job opportunities are concentrated). Things have also gotten more difficult for poorer people in the U.K.

    Some of the "self-inflicted economic wounds" might include really stupid economic policies, an extreme environmentalist agenda shutting many things down and placing big burdens on the economy, bloated bureaucracy, excessive and needless regulation. Mass migration, meanwhile, is driving up crime rates, beginning to cause flight out of the old traditional city areas, leading to increased rent prices, and leading to an excess of supply in the labor market, which inevitably reduces wages, makes working conditions poorer, and displacing more vulnerable younger and older workers.



    The Death of Europe, with Douglas Murray - YouTube
     
  2. Arkanis

    Arkanis Well-Known Member

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    No, he is not right.

    Orban is a fool, a far-right autocrat apprentice supported by Trump.

    Deep down he would have liked Hungary to ally itself more with Russia, but since the invasion of Ukraine, France, UK and Germany have reminded him that he should fall in line.
     
  3. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    All the things the Democrats and left here in the US strive for.
     
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  4. 19Crib

    19Crib Well-Known Member

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    It’s just the democrat malaise that suffocates societies that believe that” No, you cannot do better.” So what do they do? The emigrate labor to do the work instead.
     
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  5. VotreAltesse

    VotreAltesse Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There is almost no environmental politics excepted cosmetics.

    None of those refer to the "free trade" agenda that bled western Europe of its industry in favor of many other countries.
    There is other factors : western europe is now very poor in term of natural ressources. Considering environnemental policies, France is currently facing massive water shortage that never happened before, there is real worries with disappearing bees and so on. Obviously environnemental policies become a trouble when you make your own industry and agriculture compete with people with 0 protection, and again that's mostly a problem of free trade.

    Yes the situation is terrible, but not for 500 richest french family that saw their fortune tripling the last 10 years. Did the GDP triple ? If the pig are becoming obese and the cows are starving, isn't a part of the problem obvious ? Companies like Total didn't even paid any taxed in 2019 and 2020 when small companies have to pay their taxes.

    Massive immigration is a real trouble. The idiocy of our leaders that made us completely dependant of USA, China and Russia will have deep, lasting consequences. But western Europe isn't going that bad, there is just some pig who become obese.
     
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  6. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Donor

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    He is considered a total joke in Europe.

    140 000 homeless in a metro of 15 million is pretty far from 'rampant'.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2022
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  7. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well, I am not sure about the exact numbers specifically, but there is obviously a huge visible change on the streets from how there used to be.
    I don't think anyone can deny that.

    If the numbers are 140,000 today, they might have been less than 10 or 20 thousand twenty years ago.

    This article says that the amount of homelessness in Paris grew by 84% over an 11-year period.
    Homelessness in Paris: The Darker Side of the City of Light (theculturetrip.com)
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2022
  8. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Donor

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    Actually it says there are only 30 000 homeless in Paris, a city of 15 million.

    Its absurd a guy like Orban whines about France, when his own country is among the poorest in Europe, and has 400 000 homeless. Yes, his country is a ****-hole country
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2022
  9. Quantum Nerd

    Quantum Nerd Well-Known Member

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    Let's see: Germany has almost 3 times the GDP per capita compared to Hungary. My take: The ones in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Of course, this has never stopped RW extremists to peddle their RW propaganda.

    My take: I am German by birth. I don't see decline. Rather, quality of life is through the roof in Western Europe compared to places like Hungary, or even the US. People actually enjoy life, instead of just doing the rate race to buy more stuff they don't need.
     
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  10. Ruger87

    Ruger87 Banned

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    Europe has the same fate (or technically worse since they are unarmed and dealing with Islam) as America does. Give it another decade or two and their nations will begin to transform into middle eastern/African nations. Once they really grow in numbers… 30%, 40%, etc… all hell will break loose. They will form mobs and likely lynch off and chase the white population out of its own countries. South Africa 2.0. As you can predict from a mile away, these weak whites will then beckon and cry for US aid and involvement to save their sorry behinds as they always do. History always repeats itself.
     
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  11. Alwayssa

    Alwayssa Well-Known Member

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    Western Europe in decline? No Complacent? Yes.

    What Orban was stating was not economically, but socially. He was arguing that anyone, and I do mean anyone, who is not white Christian has no place in Western Europe and that people who have different ethnic backgrounds should not live in Europe, like South Koreans for instance. This will also include Greeks, Turks, Poles, Bosnians, Croatians, Tunisians, Egyptians, South Africans who are not white, and so forth.

    He basically argued what Hitler argued and everyone in CPAC cheered. Orban just hasn't proposed the "final solution" yet.
     
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  12. Alwayssa

    Alwayssa Well-Known Member

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    LOL, Europeans "unarmed?" That is too bloody, pun intended, funny.

    Does Switzerland ring a bell? In England for instance, you may obtain a firearm, but it is costly and bureaucratic. In other European countries, you may be able to purchase a firearm if you can show the need for it. The other issue is that people in Europe generally don't see the need to arm themselves anytime they walk out the front door. They are not afraid of their own shadow as some posters are on this board.
     
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  13. Ruger87

    Ruger87 Banned

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    1.) Europeans don’t have nearly the guns-rights as Americans do. It’s not even close. No conceal-carry, etc.. The average European may have a bolt-gun and a hunting shotgun or something of the likes. This does nothing for an invasion or against a mob.

    2.) The biggest reason Europeans may not feel the need to carry guns around is because they lack the 40-50 million blacks the United States has. This demographic of American society is statistically shown to be more violent and chaotic than any other demographic in the United States. Their murder rates and overall crime per capita is bizarrely high. I dare you come on down here and take a stroll through DC, Detroit, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, etc, etc… when the sun goes down.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2022
  14. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Putting aside your dislike of the author, are you actually suggesting that Western Europe is doing well?
     
  15. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    139,000 more than there were 30 years ago.
     
  16. ToughTalk

    ToughTalk Well-Known Member

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    "Fall in line"?

    Uh...ok Hitler.
     
  17. Alwayssa

    Alwayssa Well-Known Member

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    You have never learned European history, have you? Europeans have witnessed it, quite a lot of it I'm afraid. Europeans are not abstentious when telling everyone their troubles, unlike here. That is one of the things that surprises them about the United States. They know those bad things can and do happen in Europe, but it is generally not reported in the media in Europe or anything like that unlike here, locally or nationally. But it does happen.

    Second, ethnic groups are not the issue here, the socioeconomic situations and personal decisions people make are, no matter who they are, where they come from, etc.

    Finally, I have traveled extensively as a child and an adult. It is most of Central America and Asia, including the PRC, BTW. When I do go there, I stick out like a sore thumb, which as its advantages and disadvantages. But needless to say, bad things happen there too. Yes, I do get it, more than you can possibly know. However, you are overtly generalizing a group of people, blacks, and that just shows true incompetence on your part even though you did travel. You basically looked but did not see, read but did not comprehend, and hear but did not listen.
     
  18. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Donor

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    There is 30 000 today, so your math is not adding up.

    Compared to Hungary? Yes, absolutely. Hungary compares better with African nations than Western Europe.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2022
  19. Ruger87

    Ruger87 Banned

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    Tell me your experience with 40-50 million African Americans running around Europe. I’m curious to hear. I don’t want to hear about some Nigerian couple that lives 4 doors down. I want to hear about the rappers, drug-users, ball-players and all of those. These types. Cause we have no shortage of them here.

    9999CB26-017C-4ACB-B00D-613D9AB70EFC.jpeg
     
  20. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    My argument is not that Hungary has higher living standards than Western European countries, but rather that living standards in Western Europe have been going down, relative to what they were before.

    If this continues, obviously living standards in Western Europe could eventually become the same as they are in Hungary, or even go down further than that.

    It has already reached the point where it's not really worth the trouble and effort of someone in Hungary (or many other lower income Eastern European countries) to try to learn a new language and relocate to France for better job opportunities. That right there should be a significant indicator that things are not going well in the West.
    (Even if at this point in time the economics in the West are still slightly better)
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2022
  21. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You are nowhere near right on that one.
    Let me help put this in perspective for you.
    per capita GDP
    France 38,600
    Hungary 15,900
    Nigeria 2,000

    I took a look at the Gini coefficient too, and Hungary actually has a very slightly greater level of income equality than France too. (There are probably a little bit fewer rich and poor people)
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2022
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  22. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Donor

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    I travel to Europe every year and have not seen any evidence supporting that claim.

    People in Hungary make around $10K per year after taxes and have 400 000 homeless, so maybe this guy should fix his own country first as opposed to making his jealousy known to the whole world.

    Go to Hungary one day and you'll learn you are very lucky you don't have to live there.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2022
  23. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well, to be totally fair, probably a large fraction of those homeless in Hungary are gypsies.
    I doubt the "equivalent" numbers are really that different.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2022
  24. Arkanis

    Arkanis Well-Known Member

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    Compare to what ?
     
  25. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Compared to how it was doing 30 years ago.


    (by the way, just to put things in perspective, 30 years ago Hungary had just come out of Communism)
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2022

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