What can Trump do about Autonomous Zone?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Thedimon, Jun 11, 2020.

  1. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If illegalities are going on the feds could arrest and prosecute as you say. Or the FBI can claim jurisdiction over local law enforcement. Or the feds can withhold federal aid, but that would be long-term only and even that are some silly-farm court hearings.
     
  2. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Trump will ignore lawbreakers. There’s nothing to discuss. They're lucky if he doesn’t send troops.

    Let the mayor and governor negotiate with Chaz and give in to their loony demands.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2020
  3. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    Invoke the insurrection act of 1807, send in troops, and quell.
     
  4. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Donor

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    Sadly- IT IS THE PEOPLE MAKING THESE DEMANDS THAT ARE AN AFFRONT TO THE HUMAN RACE.
    Totally a one-way demand. You give us what we want, which will entitle us to steal the future from everyone without contribution, and we will give you back what we have already stolen from you.

    Among the many wrongs- these people are validating racism, renewing it, and giving people who were never racist such offense that they will become racists.
    Racism is the flag they are wrapping around the crimes they are committing, and the demands for exemption from responsibility and crimes they plan to commit in the future.

    We are seeing the officials of our cities being confronted with gangs- not legitimate protestors- and responding with the most incredible cowardice, incompetence and stupidity anyone could have ever thought possible. There can be no demands considered in any way- until law and order is restored. Anything less is to submit to criminal extortion. And they ARE criminals. Nothing more.

    If they lack the guts to restore order- call for volunteers and get the hell out of the way.
     
  5. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    Can you post a link to this set of demands?
     
  6. Darthcervantes

    Darthcervantes Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  7. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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  8. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Donor

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    I see no reason why there should not be a public meeting on the streets of Seattle, where these demands are burned.
    Most appropriate response under the circumstances.
     
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  9. PPark66

    PPark66 Well-Known Member

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    Other than get himself into trouble, nothing.
     
  10. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Donor

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    This is an excellent example of the damned if you do, damned if you don't principle.
    I think that the restoration of order is an absolute necessity; that if Minneapolis leadership had any backbone and faced it, it would not have spread.
    No concession or negotiation of any kind should take place under the threat of violence. Unacceptable.

    I would suggest Trump not concern himself with the election, do what's right for the country and let the chips fall where they may.
    That means telling the cities tolerating these riots that if they haven't taken hard steps to control them within 24 hours, federals will step in.
    Do your job- or go home.
     
  11. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The reports of crime need to be investigated. If the claims of protection money being collected and such are true, then FedGov should send in the Army to protect the citizens there from the criminals who've taken it over.

    If there arent any constitutional rights being violated, then I say let this little experiment play out.
     
  12. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    yep, we have the same problem with Presidents that abuse their power too, it's all based on the honor system it seems, and Trump has no honor
     
  13. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Let the states take care of themselves. If they do a bad job at protecting their citizens lives and property, then they will pay a heavy price next election.
     
  14. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Donor

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    Seattle unrest: Does Trump have the power to intervene? Should he? John You, AEI.org (portion of article. go to link to see all)

    The Constitution and congressional acts give Trump the legal power to call up National Guard units or even active-duty forces to stop disturbances that prevent the enforcement of the law. While Trump has wisely refrained from any widescale deployment of troops, the failure of state or local governments to maintain order may demand federal intervention.


    Protesters have turned out in Seattle and other cities against the May 25 killing of George Floyd while in the custody of Minneapolis police. Minnesota prosecutors have properly charged one police officer, Derek Chauvin, with murder, and three other officers with aiding and abetting. While the killing calls out for justice and justifies peaceful protest, it does not permit the rioting, violence and looting that befell several of the nation’s largest cities.


    Under the Constitution, the primary responsibility for criminal law enforcement lies with the states, not the federal government. Maintaining law and order and protecting public health and safety fall squarely within the “police powers” reserved to the states under the Tenth Amendment. While the federal government plays a significant role in regulating interstate crime and sending money and support to states, the Constitution gives Washington, D.C., no explicit power to handle garden variety crime.


    But President Trump has constitutional power when violence rises beyond the resources of state and local authorities.


    Presidential authority comes in part directly from the Constitution. The president has the constitutional responsibility to “take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed.” Large-scale civil disturbances interfere with the execution of federal laws, such as the mails, communications and transportation. The “Republican Form of Government” guarantee clause also requires the federal government to protect the states “against domestic Violence,” at the request of the legislature (or, in extreme circumstances, the governor).


    The Constitution also gives Congress significant powers to quell disturbances. Article I, Section 8 authorizes Congress to “provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions.” In the Insurrection Act of 1807, Congress authorized the president to use troops in response to rioting that rises to the level of an “insurrection” that “opposes or obstructs the execution of the laws of the United States or impedes the course of justice under those laws.”


    The above statement "But President Trump has constitutional power when violence rises beyond the resources of state and local authorities." is a key factor. Part of the definition of "Resources" includes the will to use those resources. If you have the means to defend, like a soldier with a rifle, but choose to throw your rifle down and run- you lack the moral resource to use your physical resource- The Courage to respond rather than run.

    Everything gets argued legally, but there is no question that the definitions of "insurrection" have been met when a group declares seized American territory to be it's own independent nation, and our laws don't apply to them. I think the president has the power- due to the fact that so many of our local leaders are proving themselves to be total cowards. It's beyond question that they mayor of Seattle lacks anything remotely like moral courage or the will to protect her city.

    I suspect that the citizens of Seattle- and especially their police force- are appalled and ashamed at the cowardice and incompetence of the dishrag in charge.
     
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  15. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    TRUMP AND BARR FOOLED THEM ALL:
     
  16. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    I anticipated legal action by FBI in my OP. It’s slow but it works.
    I do think organizers will be eventually caught and charged with violating federal laws.
    My OP was asking what can Trump do about this “occupation” without using military.
     
  17. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    My post answered that, the same way he protected DC, Trump and Barr flooded DC with Federal Officers.

    From the FBI command center, the attorney general coordinated with the Pentagon and a variety of federal agencies fanned out across the capital. Tennessee and Florida sent National Guard troops to the city to further beef up the efforts. Barr ordered agents with the FBI, Drug Enforcement Administration, U.S. Marshals and the Bureau of Prisons to help protect the city and our monuments.

    The DEA received special permission to go beyond its standard legal mandate of investigating drug-related crimes to also investigate crimes related to the protests.

    The Justice Department authorized the DEA to conduct “covert surveillance” and share intelligence with state and local officials, as well as patrol public places and make arrests for non-drug crimes as officials see fit.

    The effect on the rioters was profound, they settled down in a hurry.
     
  18. God & Country

    God & Country Well-Known Member

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    And detained indefinitely in a SuperMax. Terrorists have no right at all to due process, so no trial, no sentence, lock them up and forget about them. The little bastard that participated in the Boston Marathon bombings is in permanent solitude and will never set foot outside of prison. My understanding is that he's in a cramped cell with zero contact with any other human being, he's monitored 24/7 and his accommodations are designed to deny him any way to commit suicide. Sounds cruel and unusual but I'll bet his victim's families don't think so. Officially he's sentenced to death but I think what his lot is now is much more fitting.
     
  19. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    Trump Establishes Manlier CHAD Camp Next To CHAZ Camp.

    [​IMG]
    AUTONOMOUS ZONE, WA—In response to news that Communist pansies have taken over several city blocks of downtown Seattle and filled them with whiny little girly-men, Trump announced today he will act decisively to establish a much more “manly and way cooler” CHAD zone right across the street.

    “Only true chads will be allowed in the CHAD zone,” said Trump in a press conference. “CHAD will be so much more epic than CHAZ. It will really be fantastic. Everyone agrees. At least everyone who isn’t a loser-face dweeb. No soy boys will be allowed to enter the kingdom of CHAD.”​

    An army of square-jawed bros has already blocked off three blocks and begun building an impenetrable border wall to keep out the socialists. Free outdoor gyms, keto food trucks, and selfie stations have been set up all across the newly established zone for maximum epicness. Women will be allowed in the land of CHAD but only if they’re “like, really hot,” and look like they can fight.

    [​IMG]
    CHAD is already establishing a constitution and speech codes to govern conversation. All citizens of CHAD will be required to lift 5 times per day and refer to themselves in the 3rd person. They have also nominated their own president, whose name is Chad. President Trump has endorsed Chad for president of CHAD.

    Delighted by the news of Trump’s endorsement, Chad responded by saying “Chad thanks Trump for his endorsement. Chad very happy.”
     
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  20. 61falcon

    61falcon Well-Known Member

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    They had video on TV from there, everything seemed fine with the streets crowded with people all wandering around spending their money making the resident merchants extremely happy. No violence or mayhem,leave well enough alone!!!
     
  21. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    Yep!
    Let them marinate in their own juices.
    I want to watch this Petoria evolve into a tiny nation state wannabe.
    We could even make a treaty - in order to allow them to exist they must accept all our prisoners as asylums and our garbage as food donation.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2020
  22. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I have a house very near the autonomous zone.

    The demonstration in progress there is not violent and it has some very important points.

    Your concern that the list of problems is "one way" is fundamentally ridiculous. Obviously, what's going to get proposed is that the behavior and conditions deemed unacceptable ended.

    Police, Trump, etc., do the same thing. They make demands such as ending peaceful demonstration at the point of the weapons and troops of our MILITARY, for example.

    CHAZ is not even slightly out of control. It is fundamentally peaceful and is supported by a significantly diverse constituency. It always seems that are ass hats that want to be violent, but that is strongly opposed by those demonstrating their demand that significnat and long lived problems get solved - problems that are shared all over the USA, by the way.


    Policing HAS to be a joint effort of the police and those being protected and served.

    Having a police department that is taking action hat is WAY out of line with the desires of the community is just plain indefensible.

    There is a lot to do to achieve that.

    And, it doesn't involve shooting black kids in the back, buying military equipment to use against the minority population, etc.
     
  23. Fangbeer

    Fangbeer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Just wait until they don't pay their taxes. The Dems will storm in in a heartbeat
     
  24. God & Country

    God & Country Well-Known Member

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    A community doesn't have the right to shut down and occupy a public thoroughfare nor deny anyone access to any public area. Your casual approval of this thing smacks of the same calculus that arrives at national rioting, looting, burning and killing is justified because of the death of one black person. If this person was of any other race we would not be having this conversation. Excusing criminal behavior on this scale is not indefensible, it's efing crazy.
     
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  25. James California

    James California Well-Known Member Donor

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    ~ I think the most reasonable solution would be the private property owners take up arms and confront the "kidnappers". Hold them captive until order is restored and police are able to do their job once again.
    I feel sorry for those who live in that neighborhood. They should not stand for this insurrection .
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2020

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