What common ground do modern liberals share with America's founding fathers?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by FixingLosers, Oct 19, 2013.

  1. FixingLosers

    FixingLosers New Member

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    A question that gives liberals shivers and quivers? Rightfully so! Of course, you would see liberals bearing down on you like a predator on its prey screaming freedom of speech, then again, who are responsible for the rampant political correctness? If we should dig deep enough, who shall we see behind all those fuss about a radio/TV host's accidental slip of certain words?

    Fend America against the British Empire? No, liberals are so in bed with England right now (for those of you have nothing to refute but to start picking on my choice of words:sod off, I knew well that England ≠ Great Britain), starting with NHS, liberals want every bit of filth that doomed isle dies from.

    Self-independent? Self-sufficient? These words are just dreary, meaningless drivel to liberals.

    May be, it's best for certain group of people to realize they are not the best for this nation and this nation is not best for them, and, they should part the way and go on without?
     
  2. apoState

    apoState New Member

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    I am not sure why we idolize the Founders. Yes, compared to the lot of politicians we have nowadays they were brilliant and articulate. But they were still racist, misogynistic elitists. I like the fact that they weren't career politicians, as there really wasn't such a thing at the time, but I see no reason to use them as our role models.

    And freedom of speech has nothing to do with political correctness. If you say something politically incorrect you may get lambasted by the community, but freedom of speech means you won't go to jail for it.
     
  3. Logician0311

    Logician0311 Well-Known Member

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    Ok that's just funny. I'll give some examples of my opinion:
    1) Republicans made a lot of noise about Obama and Sharia law, then started trying to pass legislation based on their religion. Let’s face it, Islamic countries are anti-abortion, very supportive of the death penalty, oppose the separation of church and state, believe religious doctrine should be taught in schools, believe that women should have fewer rights than men, oppose “multiculturalism”, and believe that homosexuality is evil and should be outlawed... If Obama was going to spread Islamic law, he would have been a Republican.

    2) Republicans ignored violations of American citizens’ constitutional rights when they were locked up indefinitely without charge (eg: John Walker Lindh, Jose Padilla, etc) in violation of their sixth Amendment rights, and supported the Tealiban position of going into default in violation of the fourteenth Amendment, and supported DOMA in violation of the first Amendment, and supported the GOP’s voter suppression tactics in violation of the fifteenth Amendment, and supported the Patriot Act (just because of it's name)...

    and now you want to claim it's "Liberals" whose views aren't in line with the Founding Fathers. You don’t get to claim that you’re passionate refutal of gun control measures is in support of the Constitution without being called a hypocrite, unless you were equally vocal with every other constitutional violation perpetrated by prior administrations.

    But this isn't only about gun control... You've made a general statement about "Self-independent" (which isn't even english) and "Self-sufficient"... I guess you could be talking about the ACA... So you should know that the founding fathers passed socialized medicine and mandated health insurance back in 1798.
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickung...dicine-and-mandates-health-insurance-in-1798/
    http://open.salon.com/blog/paul_j_o..._signs_h-care_insurance_mandate-212_years_ago


    So, I guess the real question is what do modern conservative views have in common with those of the founding fathers...?
    I don't think quoting the last half of one Constitutional amendment is enough.
     
  4. lizarddust

    lizarddust Well-Known Member

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    Well bugger me! I didn't know America is at war with the British Empire.
     
  5. FixingLosers

    FixingLosers New Member

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    Um... what we talking about here? Stop trying to make this something other than liberals.

    - - - Updated - - -

    A country should be vigilant against its ideological foes no less than steel constructed machines be aware of the humidity of its surroundings.
     
  6. FixingLosers

    FixingLosers New Member

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    I do, you don't, so to you I say: You are not the best for America and America is not the best for you.

    Nancy Pelosi isn't? Obama isn't? Barney Frank isn't?

    And mind me, why is it wrong to be an elitist? All successful men are elites. Name one otherwise.

    E.g. the boy sent to jail for saying funny things about Obama?
     
  7. Logician0311

    Logician0311 Well-Known Member

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    So, when I illustrate that contemporary liberals have ideologies closer to those of the founding fathers than contemporary conservatives; you have nothing to refute my position...?

    Interesting. I guess that puts this whole thread in perspective.
     
  8. SixNein

    SixNein New Member

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    Yes... maybe the SS would force them out.
     
  9. Burz

    Burz New Member

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    I don't pretend that what has gone on under Obama is the best of possibilities, nor do I sympathize with the Obama administration, but you might as well ask what common ground modern Uzbeks share with Timur. It's stupid and irrelevant. The founding fathers are irrelevant except as a pleasant philosophy read, and philosophy is not government. Running a country has nothing whatever to do with events two hundred years ago, and everything to do with modern circumstances. For Obama's part, he serves private interests.
     
  10. SixNein

    SixNein New Member

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    Your right of course.
     
  11. Burz

    Burz New Member

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    The way to orderly government and strength is to discuss fundamentals. Government deals with ten thousand beings, not with ideals. One can compromise government for ideals, but one cannot run an orderly government with ideals, or the Church would still be running Europe, and all the hot air in the White House would make it an efficient apparatus.

    The words self-independent and self-sufficient, are dreary, meaningless drivel, or North Korea would be running things. But the way to orderly government and strength is to discuss fundamentals.
     
  12. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Us libertarians will sit in the corner over here while you guys fight it out :)
     
  13. AlphaOmega

    AlphaOmega Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am, they were brilliant enough to give us the power to vote and set up a government which allows us to be a government of the people, by the people and for the people. The system they setup allows us to control our own destiny which is more than I can say for many of the other countries around the world.
     
  14. Burz

    Burz New Member

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    Wealthy politicians and corporate interests.
     
  15. AlphaOmega

    AlphaOmega Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And did they setup a government which allowed you to call them that? Or do you ignore those little facts?
     
  16. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Contemporary liberals have ideologies closer to those of the founding fathers? You mean like forcing us to purchase a product? That is called illegal force and something the government is supposed to protect us from. You mean like forcing religious institutions to violate their principles? Hardly founding father material.
     
  17. Shooterman

    Shooterman New Member

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    That should bring out The Screamers and Screechers and the wrath of the unthinking.
     
  18. Logician0311

    Logician0311 Well-Known Member

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    If you knew anything about history, you'd know that this is actually very similar to something they implemented...
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickung...dicine-and-mandates-health-insurance-in-1798/

    Feel free to actually open a link or do some research every now and then.
     
  19. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    LOL, maintaining the military, a constitutional mandate is the same in your eyes? Health insurance only dates from 1890.
     
  20. Shooterman

    Shooterman New Member

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    An insurance designed to facilitate the care of a small minority of the populace, engaged in a hostile job environment, that certainly was not forced upon the entire populace, with a large segment being made exempt. Nice attempted shot, but it seems your powder was wet.

    Of course, the same job, after the liberals got through with it today would be so fraught with regulations, the ship would never leave port.
     
  21. Logician0311

    Logician0311 Well-Known Member

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    Other first-world democracies are our "ideological foes"?!
    Since when?
     
  22. Logician0311

    Logician0311 Well-Known Member

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    :roflol:
    Yeah, the scale has changed. But it clearly demonstrates that the founding fathers were not idealogically opposed to government health insurance.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Wow, you didn't even get as far as the third sentance...
    "The law authorized the creation of a government operated marine hospital service and mandated that privately employed sailors be required to purchase health care insurance."
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2011/01/17/congress-passes-socialized-medicine-and-mandates-health-insurance-in-1798/
     
  23. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Well-Known Member

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    Education. Both the founding fathers and liberals support public education.
     
  24. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Act is totally dissimilar to the Obamacare mandate. In the 1798 Act, the government imposes a tax, collects all the tax revenue, and spends the revenue as it chooses. This is a good precedent for programs in which the government imposes a tax and then spends the money on medical programs (e.g., Medicare), but it has nothing to do with mandating that individuals purchase a private product.
     
  25. Logician0311

    Logician0311 Well-Known Member

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    You might want to re-read that third sentence again... I even quoted it for you previously.
     

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