In the endless debates and battles for gay rights and tolerance, I'm curious what lesbians think about all this? Think of some common objections: HIV/unhealthy: Doesn't effect lesbians, who have the lowest rates of STD's of any class Sodomy is a violation of nature: probably no more common among lesbians than heterosexual men/women. the "ick" factor: lesbians are actually a turn-on for many/most men Linking homosexuality with pedophilia: female pedophiles are almost non-existant Gay men suffer the blunt end of the most demonizing and abrasive attacks. It would seem to me like gay men are a ball-and-chain, slowing what could be better progress made for lesbians if gay men were not in the picture. Does this upset or frustrate any lesbians? Or do you think things would be basically just as they are now, with objections traditionally levied against gay men just serving more as a smoke screen or talking point? It just surprises me how every time I see a lesbian respond to a comment attacking gay men, I never see evidence of this frustration, they always defend the gay men at least with a fair perspective, and I rarely see them differentiate themselves by saying "well that doesn't apply to us lesbians". It's curious to me why gay men suffer the most abrasive attacks. I wonder if I don't see the abrasive attacks against lesbians because I'm just not sensitive to it or if it's just because it's more subtile. I'm just curious what lesbians are thinking when they are involved in these gay rights debates.
No, I was not specifically saying that, although the common usage of the word "gay rights" to mean both might be something they have feelings on as well.
Simple really... gay men are much bigger drama queens than gay women. It's sorta like gender-reversal... the men whine and stamp their little feets demanding more while the women go quietly about making a life for themselves and their families. Gay men are all about the drama.
The need to create drama is a matter of individual personality. It is not a trait found in all gay men, and not a trait that no lesbian possesses. Speaking of creating drama, it appears that's your purpose in making baiting statements like the above. In fact, I've watched you exhibit this sort of behavior multiple times now. Since I dislike drama and prefer a respectful and rational discussion of the issues, I'll be ignoring your henceforth. So stomp your feet and complain about how overly dramatic you think I'm being as much as you like - I won't be reading it.
Oh didn't you know that ,YES,Lesbian rights are for Lesbians only as are gay rights ,we are not talking about a united grass roots movement ,No No No ,the LGBTI,is a 'Community based ' movement that conciders Lesbian as a distinct sexual orientation and get this GENDER even. Oh its Anti-science is well known ,they attack at all opurtunities Humanity being described scientifically ,as the classic Homosexual ,bisexual ,Hetrosexual scientifically based defition of human sexualality and male and Female as Genders .Kid you not! For these people of questionable sanity ,the genders of humanity are ,Male ,Female ,transexual ,Lesbian ,Gay ,Intersexed,yes it gets worse ,Queer\questioning ,pansexual and asexual.NO JOKE its that bad! they think that gender and sexual orientation are on par! They always attack biology as science as being Objectively based ,saying its a choice to be Lesbian and gay a lifestyle gender choice. its all crap BTW! ratbag middle class dimwit stupids ,uneducated phillistines at the wheel of a loopy political movement.Recently in Australia the Queensland government withdrew a couple of million to the LGBTIQ and they fell over ,as they have no independence from the Government and use the question of Hiv\Aids as their cause celebre,even though they do absolutly NOTHING for those infected if you do not Identify as gay or lesbian and even then they do little and reject those that have Aids not just Hiv infection . and you are correct the lowest infection rates are lesbians ,who only really contract the illnesses VERY rarely from Injecting drug use.Why the Lesbians hang around the hiv\Aids community is beyond me other then the government money they STEAL,from the Hiv\aids community which is full of ill people more concerned with living then marriage.!
Oh what a silly question ,you will find as this bisexual has that to actually find a lesbian or gay that admits and defends these post modernist constructs of gobbly goog is near impossible ,they just say nothing and hope you go away ,and then gossip amongst themselves as to the homophobe ,whilst never openly stating what they think! its the midedle class snipey traiat of them all.gay and lesbians that is not Homosexuals who don't mind saying I am a Homosexual ,and thats is about it!But Homosexuals are real humans lesbians and gays are not! except the real lesbians of the greek Island of lesbos.and happy gay people.
There is nothing Inclusive about the Lesbian and gay community except hatred of the bisexual and Hetrosexual communities ,they are the most exclusive humans going. Bar none ,Homosexual identification is not enough for them as they have gender issues as well as sexual orientation ,its all crap in other words .Anti-Science of an extreme type! To be a Lesbian requires you to be a radical feminist BTW ,so ALL MEN even homosexual are your oppressors ,get it ,thats why L and G when H would do. Lesbians are that men hating section of the homosexual community ,as gay are the women haters. personally why anyone hates Homosexuals even other homosexuals is beyond me!
It does include lesbians, but I haven't seen one person here go on a rant about lesbians having sex. Its always related to men and anal sex. Can't imagine why.
Its not your fault ,as the definition of Political lifestyle choices not sexual orientation or SEXUALITY ,are difficult to pin down as they are from the middle class layers that reject everything scientific ,the Inclusive terms for human sexuality are scientific ones ,homosexual ,bisexual and hetrosexual ,FULLSTOP! Once one decends into derogatory simplistic exclusive identity politics ,then the confusion must follow and if any 'Political movement " needs confusion in order to operate its the "gay and lesbian rights ' movement of University Liberal radicals. They have organised a thing called the LGBTIQ community ,Yes if you think Gay and lesbian confusing as far as sexuality ,then Queer\Questioning ,kid you not ,will blow your mind! Ask johnC if you doubt the truth of this absurdity,its all crap a bunch of radical post-modwernist gobbly goog,of the first order ,anti-science to the core and VERY reactionary ,qassi-fascist even .As they are conciously discriminating against hetrosexuals and also if the truth be known Bisexuals as the 'B' in the LGBTIQ or Gbltiq never the BGTIQ is astounding ,the joke is that any normal person irrespective of sexuality can see the lunacy .They think we can't and they are wrong JohnnyC,wrong . Scientifcally thinking people ridicle and expose them .Homosexuals detest them and everyone else will be angry at them and that is a good thing.Down with the LGBTIQ.oh btw,they propose a thing called the Gay and Lesbian Nation as they want to separate from a society that they see as hetrosexual \bisexual in its composition ,totall craziness called queer nationalism and gay self determination ,KID YOU NOT! They base themselves on which organisation ? have a guess ,the United Nations is the Answer! Gay and Lesbian politics are United Nations politics in a Nation near you!Deadset no kidding ,Johny C and co prove me wrong ,don't expect an answer they never do! The only truth of the LGBTIQ nationalism is that is a very Queer nationalism Indeed! They established a Gay and Lesbian kingdom taking over the barrier reef island of Cato in the 90's until we all laughed it out of existance .Off the coast of QUEENsland Australia. Here have a look. http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&r...g6y-Bg&usg=AFQjCNGonebvPZxJh4SdKSOqui3N8vrQpw i use a simple test ,if someone says they are Homosexual ,then they are just like you and me normal humans ,if they describe themselves as 'gay or lesbian' they are to be held suspect of stupidity and Ignorance until proven otherwise.
Personally---I tend to think GLBT is very complex. None of them healthy in my opinion....some more unhealthy then others. Men and Woman are different--biologically and emotionally. So a lesbian couple will generally be a different "animal" then a gay couple. And both of those will be a different "animal" then a straight couple. Gay men tend to have more issues with risky sex, sex obsession, drugs, disease and suicide. In otherwards...gay men suffer more. I think women are more inclined to choose actively...perhaps based on bad experience or because the environment is friendly towards choice. I have read that lesbianism is less about sex and more about companionship. But men...being made a bit differently as they are...its all a sexually driven. Utimately....its all the business of the person at hand what he or she wants to be until marriage is brought into the equation. Then its everybody's business. And no matter the differences between a lesbian couple and a gay couple...the reasons to keep marriage between one man and one woman remain the same.
Heh! Heterosexual couples don't get picked on the same way for doing the same acts gays do. I mean, who's crying about how "unnatural" anal/oral stuff is where heteros are concerned? Maybe a few on the religious fringe, but you don't hear about it outside of church.
Disagree. If government is going to be in the marriage business, then it has to be impartial. But marriage in the civil sense is not necessarily the same thing as marriage in a religious sense. Various religions interpret marriage differently anyway.
Marriage isn't a business...its a policy with a specific purpose. And not wanting to get drug into a marriage debate (I'm on zillions of other threads....everybody is repeating themselves probably you included)...my point is that people aren't ranting against gay/lesbian sexual behavior. They rant against changing marriage policy.
Now you're just stereotyping. That isn't true. Still, I would say that gay men are more readily rejected and targeted by other other homophobic males. So, I'm not shocked that homosexual males often equipped with the same 'testosterone' and human attitudes as their male antagonists... would be more apt to fight back verbally or physically. Gay women (lesbians) are generally more accepted by alpha-male types in this society. Just a couple of days ago, I heard a co-worker talking about lesbians women as people that HE could convert (with his sexual powers); he actually referred to lesbianism as a passing-phase. I was playing Mr. Objective, and just nodded to acknowledge his point. I simply responded to his 'erroneous' suggestion by telling him and the others there, that is was more complex than he was thinking. But the point is this: A lesbian woman (particularly a very attractive lesbian), is something that alpha-males I've known seek to conquer (convert); that along with wanting to be with multiple lesbian women, is a fantasy for many men. Usually straight men aren't bothered by lesbian women, unless someone REJECTS them directly (like the lesbian woman tired of being rudely HIT on). Many guys don't like their 'egos' taken down a notch or two by ANY woman, much less a strong lesbian woman. In contrast, I've seen straight alpha-males go off the handle when they realize some male working near them is a homosexual; the negative commentary and attitudes which stem from that are sometimes stunning. Not so much in the military anymore, because our culture has decided to let homosexual people 'fit' in. Actually, I've already seen straight guys in the military stand up and defend homosexual people in general, especially now that they know that some of the good people working next to them everyday are gay. Really, it's an amazing thing to see firsthand. Even so, anyone who thinks that gay men (or females) are going to put up with being dehumanized in this day and age, are blinded by their hatred or thinking foolishly indeed. We (gays) know how to fight back in many necessary ways, and all the more... we're are becoming willing to do so. Not to mention that more and more 'straight' people understand it's okay to defend us as well.
Dehumanized? This is what I'm talking about when I say hypersensitivity. People who think marriage is between one man and one woman is "dehumanizing" you.
The latter is due to the former, however, i.e. they dislike what gays do, so they want policy to work against it. Laws are designed to protect people, not limit their freedoms. I've seen some people try to argue that banning gay marriage is supposed to help society, which I find contemptible.
Yes... "dehumanize". I figured that you would say something like that, and your view is inept. For example, if someone literally thought it good/right to question your very 'sexuality' or sexual characteristics, I think you (and many others) would find that to be dehumanizing. Again, we aren't talking about someone hating-on or laughing at you because of an article of clothing or a funny haircut (which I've seen some people come unglued about nevertheless)... but this is about the equivalent of picking someone out of a crown who is not attractive... and then putting them down for BEING who they are as a human being. Now, you can keep reading people's reactions to anti-gay dehumanization as "hypersensitivity" if you wish, but it will be YOUR loss in the end. I think that only a very foolish person would expect a person being put down or insulted about something at the CORE of who they are, to respond in a casual fashion to the same. I mean, it is flat-out stupid to think that at all. Anyway, go ahead and put up a picture of your face on the forum... and let people tell you what they think about it (characteristics, flaws and all) especially if you aren't particularly attractive. I bet more than a few could/would make you cry or hurt you deeply, after a day of reading negative commentary about the same. Really... how you you think "homosexual" people should feel about being frequently critiqued, by just ANY homophobe who wishes to initiate some assessment of their sexuality? It's funny, because I've seen the egos of many straight males SHREDDED... because someone THOUGHT they were homosexual (either their voice, some mannerism, their car, music or an article of clothing... was criticized). While I find it amusing now, it does show that if you go after the makeup of an individual (who/what they are as an individual) they are indeed very 'sensitive' about the same. Again, make fun of what is personal to someone, and yes... they are going to be sensitive about it. No, I wouldn't say that, merely because they believed it. But I would very likely respond to them, if they approached me directly and somehow insisted that I should/must think or believe as THEY do. So, if people put their beliefs in your face, expecting conformity to their views... then yes, there will be a conflict (hard feelings, sensitivities and the rest). People are human, so that should be expected. Most gay people realize that marriage between two of the same sex is as "right" as marriage between a man and a woman. And sure, we know/accept that some people disagree with that, as well.
You are way off; really. People get married for MYRIAD reasons. There is no 'single' or "specific purpose". The purpose is up to the COUPLE. Typically the state is interested for certain reasons, and those often varied as well. It isn't going to CHANGE THEIR MARRIAGE (not one single iota). They have essentially NOTHING to rant against. For Pete's sake people... open your minds a little and let some sense trickle-in. Sheeesh!!!
