What If Christ Had Never Existed?

Discussion in 'History and Culture' started by Aleksander Ulyanov, Apr 9, 2018.

  1. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Suggested by "Gloriana" by Michael Moorcock, a book in which this is apparently the case. I've not seen this as an alternate history before. I've seen a few in which Christ and Christianity were analogues of ours but none where it's simply not there. Just an alternate history speculation, not a discussion on Christ's historicity in our timeline please.
     
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  2. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If the Christ story had never been introduced we would probably all be Muslim.
     
  3. wyly

    wyly Well-Known Member

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    since there is no evidence that he ever lived should answer the question...there is not a single historical mention of his existence by the romans of the time...that there is no evidence of a god or any gods didn't stop anyone from believing otherwise, a mythical jesus would be no different
     
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  4. yiostheoy

    yiostheoy Well-Known Member

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    What if apes had never climbed down out of trees and become humans?

    This kind of speculation is a total waste of time.

    Besides, the Greek and Roman gods were not that different from the Christian ones.

    Zeus, Heracles, and Hermes are still with us, as is the goddess Aphrodite.

    In Latin -- Jupiter, Hercules, Mercury, and Venus.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2018
  5. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Interesting, what type of Islam would it be? As you probably know our present Islam includes Christ as a prophet, though I'm unsure of his overall import and effect.
     
  6. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    We'd all look like the Gray Aliens

    Alternate History is the basis of a whole class of fiction and can give us insights obtainable no other way. Watch the hit series The Man in the High Castle,

    Who is the Christian analogue to Aphrodite?
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2018
  7. Guyzilla

    Guyzilla Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Christ has ALWAYS existed in the mind of man. We concoct mean ole, angry gods. They threaten, and demand. Then, there is the innate desire for a compassionate component of nature. IT has been there at least to Neanderthal. Christ is ubiquitous, and unique, in that he is not always going off at us. I for one appreciate Jesus' maturity. It is so rare in a God.
     
  8. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    post deleted
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2018
  9. Guyzilla

    Guyzilla Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That is FALSE. There is a short reference to Jesus and his followers by Josephus. A Roman suckup scribe. IT is not much corroboration. It is clear that there would not still be a Christianity, if not for Constantine.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2018
  10. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Maybe I should be asking what if Constantine never existed, but he's certainly a far less appealing figure.

    Constantine was a priest of Sol Invictus and the sign supposedly given to him at the Milvian Bridge, the cross within a circle, is actually the sign of Sol Invictus. Constantine only converted to Christianity on his deathbed. He may or may not have been honestly religious but he was a brilliant politician and it is reasonably certain that Christianity's advantages as a religion for the governing of Rome were not lost on him.

    The reference by Josephus isn't very much, that is true, but it's equivalent to what we have for many other figures from Ancient Times that we accept without question. In Christ's times the Middle East was in spiritual ferment. "Wonder workers" (like Simon Magus) were commonplace. Someone like Jesus actually existing and being the basis for the legends is probably more likely than not.
     
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  11. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

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    If we had no Christ, we might be Muslim?
    Without Christ, we'd have no one to worship until Muhammad came along.
     
  12. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

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    Or we'd be Jewish?
     
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  13. yiostheoy

    yiostheoy Well-Known Member

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    Holy Mary Mother Of Christ.
     
  14. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    :eekeyes:

    Holy Mary Mother of Christ Indeed, I sure hope you're being facetious

    Aphrodite is about the most lascivious goddess there is. There's nothing motherly about her. Mary might have an analogue in Ceres or Hathor, but Jesus gonna whomp you upside the head if he knows you dissed his mama like that

    OTOH it's a good point. There are no really sexual saints in the Christian pantheon, no patron saints of prostitutes, though there are a few for thieves. Christianity is so very anti-sex, maybe Mary is the anti-Aphrodite

    The Cult of Mary in Roman Catholicism is unique in Christianity. One of the only attempts to use ex Cathedra involved making her almost a co-ruler with Christ
     
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  15. yiostheoy

    yiostheoy Well-Known Member

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    Good research.

    Why should she NOT be co-ruler?

    Mothers inherit just as do their sons.
     
  16. wyly

    wyly Well-Known Member

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    nope, that reference was 90+ years after the supposed time of christ, there are no contemporary Roman historical documentation of such a person.

    Claims that there are historical records of his existence are as legitimate as Bigfoot and Loch Ness monster sightings, there are none.
     
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  17. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Many RC agree with you, we like Mary. Though one has to wonder then why we're so against lady priests.
     
  18. yiostheoy

    yiostheoy Well-Known Member

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    The priesthood throughout history has always been by males.

    Jesus did not ordain any females to the priesthood.
     
  19. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    So? and so? Did Jesus ordain any ol the Apostles? Even with Peter he just said he wanted him to be the leader

    And if you're going to say he ordained the Apostles implicity then what about Mary Magdalene?

    Priests used to marry regularly until the time of Gregory the Great. The Church doesn't go by tradition, it goes by wrong and right.
     
  20. yiostheoy

    yiostheoy Well-Known Member

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    If you read the Greek New Testament carefully it says he laid his hands on them.

    He organized 12 apostles of which Peter was the head, and about 70 missionaries of which Mark and Luke were 2.

    It is unknown if Paul was one of the 12 apostles. He calls himself an apostle but it seems more likely he was just a missionary.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2018
  21. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    The Greek New Testament is Greek to me.:D

    I still find it strange that we RC venerate Mary almost as much as Christ and yet won't let ladies be priestesses.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2018
  22. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    And it has screwed up countless lives.

    There was a sect of the Shakers that would only have sex through a hole in a sheet.
     
  23. Merwen

    Merwen Well-Known Member

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    IMO much of Mohammed's teachings were probably filched from Christianity.
     
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  24. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    Periodically, he would seclude himself in a mountain cave named Hira for several nights of prayer; later, at age 40, he reported being visited by Gabriel in the cave,[8][9] where he stated he received his first revelation from God. Three years later, in 610,[10] Muhammad started preaching these revelations publicly,[11]
    - wiki -

    Dey wus aliens
     
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  25. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

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    No Christmas or Easter; IDK about you, but in the UK, that means no Queen's Speech or big chocolate eggs.
     
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