What is a fact?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Incorporeal, Jan 7, 2012.

  1. Incorporeal

    Incorporeal Well-Known Member

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    I believe that the Bible is true and real.

    Does the statement above constitute a fact? If 'yes', then what 'fact' is established by that statement? If 'no' then explain why the statement is not a 'fact'.
     
  2. Incorporeal

    Incorporeal Well-Known Member

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    Shall we try this again.
     
  3. speedingtime

    speedingtime Banned at Members Request

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    If you believe that the Bible is true and real, then your faith in the Bible is a fact, yes. It does not necessarily mean that what is in the Bible is a fact, but it is a fact that you believe in it.
     
  4. FearandLoathing

    FearandLoathing Well-Known Member

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    No.

    It is an opinion based on belief.

    A fact would be it is written in the bible: "come unto me all ye who are weary and laden and I shall give you rest."
     
  5. Incorporeal

    Incorporeal Well-Known Member

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    Curious question here: What is the source of the definition?

    My preference is this one:

    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/fact
    "fact (fkt)
    n.
    1. Knowledge or information based on real occurrences: an account based on fact; a blur of fact and fancy.
    2.
    a. Something demonstrated to exist or known to have existed: Genetic engineering is now a fact. That Chaucer was a real person is an undisputed fact.
    b. A real occurrence; an event: had to prove the facts of the case.
    c. Something believed to be true or real: a document laced with mistaken facts.
    3. A thing that has been done, especially a crime: an accessory before the fact.
    4. Law The aspect of a case at law comprising events determined by evidence: The jury made a finding of fact."

    In the OP, the questions were pointed at what is a 'fact'. The statement in consideration was "I believe that the Bible is true and real. " Analyze the statement and it is found that the subject of the statement is "the Bible": "I "believe"" is showing the action (verb) of the (personal pronoun) "I". Therefore, the subject (Bible) is believed (verb) to be "true and real". "True and real" would be adjectives describing what the Bible is.

    From this point of view, the subject (Bible) [not the belief] is 'true and real'.
     
  6. speedingtime

    speedingtime Banned at Members Request

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    So...You're saying the Bible is true because you say so? Otherwise I don't really understand your point.

    That definition was from dictionary.com.
     
  7. Incorporeal

    Incorporeal Well-Known Member

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    You are correct... the example you have expressed could be stated as a fact... because the Bible does say that.

    On the other side of that coin, is the definition of the word "fact". Therefore, if I were to say "I believe that the verse in the Bible which reads "come unto me all ye who are weary and laden and I shall give you rest." is true and real ", would also be a fact per the definition of 'fact', because I believe it to be true and real.
     
  8. Incorporeal

    Incorporeal Well-Known Member

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    Not because I say so, but because of the definition of the term 'fact'. I merely express my belief that the Bible is true and real; then because of the definition of 'fact', the conclusion can be made that the Bible is true and real because of my belief that it is true and real.
     
  9. FearandLoathing

    FearandLoathing Well-Known Member

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    No.

    It is an opinion based on belief.

    A fact would be it is written in the bible: "come unto me all ye who are weary and laden and I shall give you rest."
     
  10. Incorporeal

    Incorporeal Well-Known Member

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    The above post is a repeat of the post located here: http://www.politicalforum.com/4938030-post4.html

    Restating a previous post does not refute the responses that have already been given to that original posting. Do you have anything positive to add as opposed to a mere repeat of the same thing again? If not, then I am forced to assume that you cannot refute my statements concerning the definition and it usage.
     
  11. Incorporeal

    Incorporeal Well-Known Member

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    Are there no others that would like to tackle the questions in the OP?
    Those questions being listed below:

    "I believe that the Bible is true and real.

    Does the statement above constitute a fact? If 'yes', then what 'fact' is established by that statement? If 'no' then explain why the statement is not a 'fact'."

    If not, then I have to presume that all those attending this thread are acquiescing to the 'fact' that the Bible is true and real due to my believing that the Bible is true and real.
     
  12. Bishadi

    Bishadi Banned

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    The statement does exist but the claim is false of the statement
    that the belief is far from fact but closer to the garbage of quacks

    Because belief dont make 'truth'
     
  13. Incorporeal

    Incorporeal Well-Known Member

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    Your shouting is impressive, but your psychological game of " why don't you,, yes, but" is self defeating. (See Psychoanalytic book entitled "Games People Play")




    The above seems to be in contradiction of the definition of the term 'fact'.


    The question was relative to "fact", not "truth". Please stay focused.
     
  14. thebrucebeat

    thebrucebeat Banned

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    The fact that the OP asserts is that the claimant believes that the bible is true.
    It does not assert that the bible is true.
     
  15. Incorporeal

    Incorporeal Well-Known Member

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    And what point are you attempting to make?
     
  16. thebrucebeat

    thebrucebeat Banned

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    I'm answering your question.
    What isn't clear? I'll try to help you.
     
  17. Incorporeal

    Incorporeal Well-Known Member

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    Explain how your comments "The fact that the OP asserts is that the claimant believes that the bible is true.
    It does not assert that the bible is true.", answers the questions.
     
  18. thebrucebeat

    thebrucebeat Banned

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    You asked if the OP was a fact. I answered yes, specified the fact it asserted, and clarified by specifying a statement that was not supported by the OP.

    How else can I help you?
     
  19. thebrucebeat

    thebrucebeat Banned

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    There is one other possibility, but one has to add a narrative to the OP statement. The claimant could be lying, in which case the statement would not be a fact, but merely a deception.
     
  20. Incorporeal

    Incorporeal Well-Known Member

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    OK.


    OK

    Then you contradict your admission to the opening assertion being true. The subject of the OP assertion was the Bible and the truth and realness of the Bible. The word 'believe' is a verb showing the action of the claimant. The subject of that verb is the Bible and the truth and realness of the Bible are descriptors of the status of the subject.

    By reading more carefully and studying the rules of grammar.
     

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