What is the argument in favour of euthanasia for people who are not about to die?

I am not comfortable with any form of euthanasia, but when it's for someone who is suffering through an incredible amount of pain in the final phase of their life, then I at least GET IT! But what they are doing in that INSANE hell scape known as Canada is just unbelievable. In one such case, Kiano Vafaeian had sought and been approved for medically assisted suicide, part of Canada’s “Medical Assistance in Dying” law, also called MAiD. Why was it approved? Well, he was depressed, diabetic, has lost vision in one eye and didn't have a girlfriend. Yeah those are just GREAT reasons to kill him! Thankfully it became public and the QUACK doctor cancelled it. But there is no reason to believe that it would have been illegal.

SOURCE: https://www.thefp.com/p/scheduled-t...CRb4iegvkM1IHCA8rVxaRf6PIVUdQ_TYFB41Mkwr4OaE4

And what's next on Canada's agenda? Assisted dying for mentally illness and kids! According to Aleteia:

"Next year, Canadian lawmakers are expected to adjust the criteria for euthanasia eligibility, to include the mentally ill and “mature minors.” The latter would allow underaged patients to make such decisions for themselves if the doctor deems them “mature” enough; however, the basis for recognition of “maturity” in this instance is not clearly defined." https://aleteia.org/2022/10/13/cana...e-shows-the-real-dangers-of-legal-euthanasia/

 

Slippery slope...for sure.

 

It’s also cheaper to let them go early. I saw a statistic years ago that, for some people, more is spent on medical care for the last two weeks of life than for all the previous years.

I am not saying it’s right, but for a country which has taken a sharp left turn, the way Canada has, it’s an attractive option to keep the cost of state provided medical care down.

 

Yes, I agree.

 

There are a few arguments in favour of legalizing doctor assisted suicide for all.

The best one, I think, is that it encourages the suicidal to get themselves in front of medical professionals who can provide alternatives the suicidal may not have considered and attention many suicidal people are desperate for. Legalizing doctor assisted suicide may decrease rather than increase the suicide rate.

Sometimes people will attempt suicide as a desperate cry for help, succeed, and die. Other times they fail, and wind up at the hospital with said doctors there to help them, but only after they nearly killed themselves rather than before.

Another argument is one about freedom of choice. If somebody wants to die and wants the least painful way to accomplish it, should we force them to keep living against their will?

 

By legalizing suicide we are affirming to those who need it least----that yes some people have no hope for a better life and you are probably one of those people.

 

On this I have to side with libertarians. However, this is a very delicate matter and should be heavily regulated. You appear to dismiss depression as if it did not imply "an incredible amount of pain". My understanding is that it can be just as bad, or worse, than physical pain. Better for a doctor to assist than for them to go out to the corner store, buy an AR-15 and get themselves killed by a cop after taking a handful of innocent people with them.

I don't know why you see some sort of "agenda". It's just a way to stop people from suffering when everything else has been tried and there is no alternative.

 

Try a couple years!

 

Don't play semantic games. He requested help ending his life. Killing people is what the US does to people on death row.

 

You notice that Canada doesn't have a homeless problem? Soon, with their euthanasia, they won't even have a political opponent problem.

 

The problem I have with the first argument is there’s no guarantee the doctor(s) is actually seeking alternatives to the best of their ability before turning to assisted suicide.

You could just as easily have a situation where he not only doesn’t help them but actually turns them toward it. You could have the most prolific serial killers all sanctioned and protected by the state.

Your second argument, along with all others, runs into the problem of the counter argument: there is a huge difference between a person having the right to kill themselves and society being obligated to help them.

When and where we decide society should assist someone in suicide must be met with incredible discernment because there is so much room for abuse on the part of the state and the medical practitioners with both money and pure bad intentions being easily corruptible parts of the equation.

Going the way of “well it’s their right to die so therefore let’s help them all” is an incredibly dangerous absolute.

 

The Canadian SC ruled the MAiD program is constitutional. Parliament passed a law making it legal. The standard is "You have to be over 18. You have to have an OHIP card." (He was referring to her Ontario Health Insurance Plan.) "You have to have suffering that cannot be remediated or treated in some way that's acceptable to you."
https://www.nwaonline.com/news/2022/nov/06/scheduled-to-die/

It's a personal choice made with the government's approval and assistance.

 

How is it forcing them to keep living? They're free to kill themselves anytime.

 

ME? Why would I be one of those people?

 

They're two different types of pain so there's no way that they can be equated, or that one can be "worse" than the other. However, I think that everyone understands that there is a major distinction between physical pain with a terminal illness and "pain" (whatever the hell that is) from treatable depression.

Well sure, but you're pretending that it's a binary choice between assisted suicide and suicide by cop after killing some people.

What should "suffering" be defined as in this context?

 

Oh, and in swoops @Lee Atwater with another wild claim with absolutely no supporting evidence! Why am I not surprised!

 

So it should be approved for literally ANY reason?

 

You'd want to carefully structure how the doctor gets paid for the service to encourage the correct behavior on their part. You could also structure it so that the person has to go through some counselling etc before the option is available. Make sure it's more than one doctor involved.

Making it take a while may in itself reduce the suicide rate.

Making it legal doesn't make anybody obligated to help them. There is no compulsion for a doctor to offer the service.

 

As far as the topic of this thread goes: pain that can lead to suicide, they most certainly CAN be equated.

I'm not talking about treatable depression (or treatable physical pain). I'm talking about the untreatable version of either.

Confusing an example with binary thinking means we need to work more on explaining the latter better

Same as in any context related to this thread

 

There are many complex areas where our speculating intellects, on the one hand, and our medico-legal system, on the other, are not up to the challenge. Assisted suicide, abortion, and the criminal death penalty might be the most obvious examples.

If you believe you can understand what it might be like to be a position where you need to contemplate ending your life [or assisting another to this end], then you are dead wrong.

 

So are you for or against euthanasia?

 

So 'pain' can be something more than 'physical.' Where did you get this idea from? The definition of 'pain' is limited to 'physical', plain and simple. If you can source a definition to the contrary, then I'm sure that you will be able to provide it.

Are we aware of this being a high risk among suicidal people?

Untreatable depression? That's actually a thing?

Well this thread relates to Canada's “Medical Assistance in Dying” law. So you're okay with that law?

 

A bridge.

 

Yeah... I guess. My dad's death caused me a lot of pain. As did my mom's. I've been told that's more or less what people who are pathologically depressed feel except all the time and it diminishes for only a bit, and then returns.

Says who? Not really relevant. If it's anyway near how people who suffer from chronic depression describe it, I can understand their anguish. I don't care what you want to call it.

 

if our pets were in pain and dying, we would put them to sleep, humans should have the same choice for themselves

the reason most do not, is life insurance would not cover it then