What is the point of the Bible?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by wgabrie, Aug 9, 2021.

  1. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    I think the point of the bible was to sprinkle mankind with concepts to create a more ripe field for the latter days and to encourage people to seek God.
     
  2. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Well-Known Member

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    And when you read what they publish, you get exactly what they stated. They don't say "This proves." They say "This supports" Biblical writings such as Genesis. Now, read up on what they write concerning old age versus young age earth and universe. The scientists that publish in these publications have PhD's from the same universities as do the secular scientists. See if you can get past the name calling and actually do some investigative work. Unlike the main stream media so-called journalists.
     
  3. Cosmo

    Cosmo Well-Known Member

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    Phds be damned.The method of creationists is religious-inspired apriorism; apriorism is when someone starts off with an untested core assumption about the way things are.Then they work back from that assumption looking for evidence that can be made to fit the preconceived notion. Young Earth creationists start off with the untested assumption that there is a supernatural power that created humanity and everything else in just six days a few thousand years ago;then work back from that trying to make their supposed facts fit their theory.This is no way to get to the truth of things, and it certainly isn't science!
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2021
  4. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Well-Known Member

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    Of course it is. You want to prove something, that is exactly what you do. That's what secular science does as well. It's why all their writings using old universe and earth is filled with fuzzy words like "it might be", "could be", "may be" and so on. Never a definitive statement. It's all theoretical and therefore not finite. If you would read just one article on say the Grand Canyon you would find that secular science doesn't answer many questions in the science, geology and archeology. Why you are so resistant proves my point. Fear amongst secular scientists is growing because their theories are falling apart.
     
  5. Cosmo

    Cosmo Well-Known Member

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    Whatever humps your camel.
    Creationism is proof that despite our highly-evolved brains, humans still cling to easily-disproven nonsense if it's taught early enough and with fervor.
     
  6. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    Disproven nonsense? Citation please?
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2021
  7. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Well-Known Member

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    Secularism is proof that despite our highly God-given brains, humans still puff themselves up as infallible gods whose pride will not let them be disproven even if they look completely silly trying to defend themselves when proven wrong. This illness can be caught at any stage of their lives...
     
  8. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't see The Bible as a novel, which is prolly why I don't see the last chapter (Revelations) as being its purpose. IMO its purpose is to convey the following- 'love eachother to build a better world, but if you fail, you will still be loved afterward.'
     
  9. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Well-Known Member

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    The reason why Christ did not come back shortly after his resurrection is because the Church fell into apostacy. This allowed for the prophecies in the OT to happen but far into the future into our days. Isaiah seeing a nuclear bomb and other prophecies of our days. Israel coming back as well.
     
  10. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    There are more examples where the God character hates people than loves them. He still hates Esau.
     
  11. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    The Bible says that if a prophecy doesn't happen within the lifetime of the prophet, that the prophet was just full of ____ and that the prophecy is meaningless.
     
  12. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    On what do you base the claim that 'God hates Esau'? Esau was, after all, the progenitor of the Edomites, and Deuteronomy 23 says:
    7 `Thou dost not abominate an Edomite, for thy brother he [is]; thou dost not abominate an Egyptian, for a sojourner thou hast been in his land;
    8 sons who are begotten of them, a third generation of them, doth enter into the assembly of Jehovah
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2021
  13. Cosmo

    Cosmo Well-Known Member

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    Science has shown, repeatedly, that methodological naturalism can push back ignorance;Creationism adds nothing of intellectual value to the effort.

    Science does not support the Genesis story; no amount of projection by a creationist changes that.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2021
  14. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Well-Known Member

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    Science does support the Genesis theory. You just want to dismiss it. That's your opinion but science is supporting it more than the old universe theories. They are just theories. Here is an interesting article in ICR.org: https://www.icr.org/article/dna-in-sheep-and-dinosaurs/
    DNA in Sheep and Dinosaurs
    BY BRIAN THOMAS, PH.D. * |
    MONDAY, AUGUST 09, 2021
    Share Email Facebook Twitter Pinterest
    About 1,600 years ago, salt miners in Iran apparently left their lamb lunch down the shaft. Their loss became scientists' gain. The now-mummified sheep carcass suggests that salt helps preserve sheepskin DNA.

    The research results, published in Biology Letters, showed probably the best-preserved DNA from any skin from that time.1 The Iranian and European team used radiocarbon dating to help establish an age estimate. They sequenced DNA from the sheep skin and discovered that it was high enough quality to compare against modern sheep. Does this “exceptional ancient DNA preservation” have any bearing on discussions about preserved dinosaur DNA?

    This sheep skin sample had much less degraded DNA than other samples about the same age (1,600 years). The study authors attributed the exceptional preservation to two effects of the salt. First, it dried out the skin. Less water means less chemistry, and random chemistry is the enemy of DNA preservation. Second, the salt may have discouraged microbes that ordinarily degrade carcasses.

    These effects make sense in light of the way we have used salt to preserve foods like bacon. Microbes don’t thrive in dry, salty conditions. But even with salt right next to the sheep skin to keep microbes at bay, the sheep DNA was still fragmented. Clearly, chemistry has been happening on that DNA, even with salt nearby.

    The report cited a separate study explaining why DNA is expected to decay. Its authors wrote, “Fragmentation through depurination is a well-characterized process.” They also said, “The immutable depurination process likely still imposes practical limits on DNA recovery in deep time and recovering Mesozoic DNA, for example, remains extremely unlikely.”2

    Thus, even if salt doubled the maximum time that DNA in skin could last, we still shouldn’t find it in dinosaur bones said to be 70 million years old. And yet we do—and none of those fossils were found next to salt.3,4

    In the end, immutable depurination destroys DNA, yet actual DNA occurs in some rare fossils. Salt-preserved DNA in a sheep’s skin doesn’t resolve this huge discrepancy, but a young world would. A Noah’s Flood origin for fossils including dinosaur bones places them within a time range where we would still expect to find some rare DNA fragments even without salt.
     
  15. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Well-Known Member

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    Where does the Bible say this?
     
  16. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    Try Romans 9:13 (CEB) = "As it is written, I loved Jacob, but I hated Esau."

    Esau is the only character in the Bible that the God character hates by name. He hated him before he was born.
     
  17. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Well-Known Member

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    Ya, the third generation of the Edomite's is in the Lord's Church in good standing. Not Esau... However, in Romans, it also says God will have mercy on those he chooses to like Esau.
     
  18. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    Tray Deuteronomy 18:21-22 (NKJV) = "21 And if you say in your heart, ‘How shall we know the word which the Lord has not spoken?’— 22 when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him."

    Did the Jesus character return as it says in Revelation 1:7 (CEV) = "Look! He is coming with the clouds. Everyone will see him, even the ones who stuck a sword through him. All people on earth will weep because of him. Yes, it will happen! Amen."
     
  19. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    Seeing that the God character screwed over Esau before he was born and until his dying day, God's mercy could be considered to be worthless.
     
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  20. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    First off, its commonly accepted that when God showed favor, it was said He 'loved one and hated the other'. This wasn't meant to denote actual hatred, but just a saying of the day that has lost its meaning over time, much like 'threading a camel through the eye of a needle' meant taking it through the small back door of a fortress during a siege.

    But you go on to say 'God hated Esau before he was born.' Where do you get that from?
     
  21. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    Try Romans 9:10-13 (ERV) = 10 And that is not all. Rebecca also had sons, and they had the same father. He is our father Isaac. 11-12 But before the two sons were born, God told Rebecca, “The older son will serve the younger.” This was before the boys had done anything good or bad. God said this before they were born so that the boy he wanted would be chosen because of God’s own plan. He was chosen because he was the one God wanted to call, not because of anything the boys did. 13 As the Scriptures say, “I loved Jacob, but I hated Esau.”

    &
    Malachi 1:2-3 (NKJV) =
    2 “I have loved you,” says the Lord.
    “Yet you say, ‘In what way have You loved us?’
    Was not Esau Jacob’s brother?”
    Says the Lord.
    “Yet Jacob I have loved;
    3 But Esau I have hated,
    And laid waste his mountains and his heritage
    For the jackals of the wilderness.”

    Notice how the God character admits to actively screwing over Esau.
     
  22. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why do you keep switching versions? I notice in YLT it says 'it is written' not, 'as the scriptures say'... and both fail to mention where 'it is written'. Regardless, do you think its relevant that Esau gave away his birthright for a bowl of lentils? You keep blaming God for Esau's fate, but clearly Esau wasn't a very forward-thinking individual... isn't it possible that his misfortune is his own fault, and the story is a metaphor?
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2021
  23. Cosmo

    Cosmo Well-Known Member

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    I dismiss anyone that cherry-picks data to fit their narrative. Cherry-picking is a hallmark of poor science or pseudoscience.

    Reasonable criticism is as fundamental to science as natural selection is to adaptive evolution;but what Brian Thomas thinks is scientific evidence for a "young world" could not be published in any serious peer-reviewed journal.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2021
  24. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    All of the versions express the same idea. Which version do you prefer, since there is a bunch of them? I like the NKJV, CEB, CEV MSG, ERV, TLB, NLT, TPT, and some others.

    The God character got ticked because Esau refused to commit incest. All of the other characters were banging their sisters, and other close relatives. They were more inbred than a pot of spaghetti. They were all crazies as a result.
     
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  25. Cosmo

    Cosmo Well-Known Member

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    Addendum: Brian Thomas articles amount to opinion pieces.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2021

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