What is the point of the Bible?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by wgabrie, Aug 9, 2021.

  1. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Well-Known Member

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    Right, but nowhere does it say in his lifetime. Teachers have used the written and oral word of the Prophets, including the 5 books of Moses throughout history up until John. And, we use them today as well. Never said while he was alive. Many OT prophets spoke of the "last days" so obviously not in their time periods on earth.

    And, it will happen. Even the ones who crucified Christ will see him coming from spirit prison or paradise if they have repented. Jesus did forgive the Roman soldiers as he said "forgive them for they know not what they do." I'm sure every Christian since the resurrection have hoped of his 2nd coming. But, Christ even said he didn't know when that was. Only the Father knows. Pointing out that the two are not the same personage. Both members of the Godhead and are Gods but separate and distinct personages of glorified resurrected flesh and bones.
     
  2. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Well-Known Member

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    God didn't screw over anyone. Esau made the mistakes in the pre-earth life as well as in earth life. Esau always has had free moral agency before and after birth and chose not to be obedient in both places the way Jacob was. God is the judge of us all and that is His call, not yours. You weren't there.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2021
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  3. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Well-Known Member

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    There are the facts being dismissed by illogical rants about cherry-picking. Also, if you knew how those review journal publications work, they only publish what the collective want. And, they don't want anyone to make them out to be fools. So, they hide the truth and disallow truth to be published with their fuzzy word lies. The ones that aren't serious are those who dismiss young earth without science, logic and reasoning.
     
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  4. Cosmo

    Cosmo Well-Known Member

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    Anti-science drivel.
     
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  5. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Well-Known Member

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    The lies about climate change by many scientists for the money they get in grants is just one illustration of fraud in science interpretations. Secular scientists simply are so deep in their ideological beliefs that they refuse to see the errors they conclude about the science facts. The DNA example I gave is a perfect example of this in your response. Instead of explaining why that conclusion is wrong, you go on a cherry-picking rant of personal attacks.
     
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  6. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    There are thousands of ethnocentric religious fairy tales that people have believed in throughout the ages. I am familiar with the extremely ethnocentric ancient Middle Eastern Jewish fairy tale and place it at the bottom of the list. The lake of fire will turn into polished cut diamonds before I believe it.
     
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  7. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Well-Known Member

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    That's your sad opinions. Not mine. The only fairy tale you are living is your own life. Enjoy! It was given to you by your Father in Heaven.
     
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  8. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    I had no idea you believed in Jupiter!
     
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  9. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Well-Known Member

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    Our Father in Heaven's name is Elohim... Is your fairy tale's name Jupiter?
     
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  10. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    That imaginary creature might be your daddy but he isn't mine.
     
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  11. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Well-Known Member

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    Why yes he is. Let me introduce you to your Father in Heaven. Let's bow our heads. Father in Heaven, hallowed by thy name. This is your son, Wyrd of Gawd, and he would like to know you. Please strike him with a bolt of lightening to wake up his spirit and give him the light of your Son, Christ. Amen...
    :oldman:
     
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  12. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for being so kind to pray for me but unfortunately your heart-felt prayer was unsuccessful. You used the wrong word so I wasn't zapped by one of the lightning bolts that streaked across the sky during the recent thunderstorm in my area. But I do appreciate you for caring about me so much that you would take time out of your busy life to express such love for me. Thank you so much.

    Lightening vs. Lightning -- What's the Difference?
    https://www.grammarly.com/blog/lightening-vs-lightning/
     
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  13. Cosmo

    Cosmo Well-Known Member

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    The Brian Thomas article is another desperate attempt by creationists trying to validate their religious beliefs.
    Spoiler alert; It's a fail, per usual.

    Paleontologist Dr.Mary Schweitzer and her team made headlines in 2005 with their supposed discovery of soft tissues still surviving within the 68 million-year-old bones of a Tyrannosaurus Rex.

    PBS interview.
    On July 31, 2007, Dr.Mary Schweitzer answered selected viewer questions about her discovery of what may be T. rex blood vessels and red blood cells, the implications of that and similar discoveries, and other matters dinosaurian and paleontological.

    Excerpts:

    Q: The NOVA scienceNOW show and its Web site both state that these are possible blood vessels and possible red blood cells. When will you know if they definitely are, and if they are, what questions about T. rex (and perhaps other extinct animals) might that confirmation help answer?

    A: I can't make any claims for those structures that appear to be like their modern counterparts until the chemistry reveals whether they are molecular remnants of the original structures, even if altered greatly, or if they are some kind of microbial pseudomorph or even some kind of as yet unknown biogeological process unrelated to structures or molecules produced by the dinosaur itself. If, for example, I were able to isolate those round red structures in the vessel and analyze them separately, and if I were to see any signals that are consistent with heme or hemoglobin, I would be much more likely to believe they are related to the dinosaur cells and proteins. For right now, I am assuming they are not.

    Q: What does your discovery of soft tissues still surviving after many millions of years say about our understanding of how fossils become fossils? Will that understanding now have to be greatly revised? Also, did other paleontologists initially doubt your discovery, seeing how radical it was? Keep up the good work!

    A: I think that our fundamental understanding of the fossilization process may be somewhat in need of revamping—but only if it can be shown that this material is original to the dinosaurs and not some unknown artifact. One thing I am focusing on in our lab is to try to tease out the pathways that would go from what we know of modern tissues and cells to whatever these structures have become. But in reality, although the mechanisms of fossilization have been presented to the public in relatively simplified form, we in the profession have always known that it is more complicated, and that microenvironments within a single bone can vary greatly, resulting in a highly varied preservation. This is just an extension of that, I guess.

    As for an acceptance of this work, what needs to be realized is that it is the job of my colleagues to be very skeptical. That is how we keep one another in line! Peer review is crucial to the scientific process, and the skeptical opinion of my colleagues is something I rely on very much. They are probably not as skeptical as me though. I think many of them have a "let's just wait and see" attitude that is very, very appropriate. We have a saying that goes, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof." That is what we are trying to come up with, and the community will wait until then to weigh in fully, I think. They will also wait until the work is repeated by other colleagues. Those are things that are necessary to validate our work.

    Q: Many creationists claim that the Earth is much younger than the evolutionists claim. Is there any possibility that your discoveries should make experts on both sides of the argument reevaluate the methods of established dating used in the field?

    A: Actually, my work doesn't say anything at all about the age of the Earth. As a scientist I can only speak to the data that exist. Having reviewed a great deal of data from many different disciplines, I see no reason at all to doubt the general scientific consensus that the Earth is about five or six billion years old. We deal with testable hypotheses in science, and many of the arguments made for a young Earth are not testable, nor is there any valid data to support a young Earth that stands up to peer review or scientific scrutiny. However, the fields of geology, nuclear physics, astronomy, paleontology, genetics, and evolutionary biology all speak to an ancient Earth. Our discoveries may make people reevaluate the longevity of molecules and the presumed pathways of molecular degradation, but they do not really deal at all with the age of the Earth.
    -------
    Schweitzer didn't find hemoglobin or red blood cells. It was evidence of degraded hemoglobin fragments and structures that "might" represent altered blood remnants. It was emphasized repeatedly that even those results were tentative.

    Schweitzer and her colleagues did figure out how to remove the iron from their samples, which enabled them to analyze the original proteins. They even found chemicals consistent with being DNA, but Schweitzer was quick to note that she hasn't proven they really are DNA.

    It is interesting to note that Dr. Schweitzer is herself a devout Christian.She still believes that the dinosaur remnant is over 65 million years old. She also gets angry when creationist organizations “hijack” her findings and twist her data around to fit their own. She makes the point that these organizations don't offer their own data and simply alter and interpret the hard work of scientists like her.

    FYI:Geologists have established that the Hell Creek Formation, where T. rex was found, is 68 million years old, and so are the bones buried in it.
    ------
    To Schweitzer, trying to prove your religious beliefs through empirical evidence is absurd, if not sacrilegious. "If God is who He says He is, He doesn't need us to twist and contort scientific data," ...
    https://www.discovermagazine.com/the-sciences/schweitzers-dangerous-discovery
    --------
    Creationists consistently mischaracterize and misrepresent the work of scientists.
    The vast majority of scientists, including the vast majority of Christian scientists see it for what it is, fraud!

    The ICR and their ilk are committing fraud. They depend on a lack of normal skepticism and a lack of knowledge to perpetrate fraud.They carry on these frauds with money contributed by trusting Christians. One has a right to expect better ethics from people who claim to be engaged in ministry for Jesus.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2021
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  14. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    Jacob and his mommy were scum and if there's a hell they certainly need to be in it. If you had eaten from the tree of knowledge of good and evil you would know that. Of course the story is just a fictional account of things that went on in families at the time, where sons fought each other to the death instead of working together. It happened all the time in ancient cultures. People are more civilized in modern times.

    Esau comes across as a saint because if he had given way to his anger he would have killed all of them without a second thought. So, Esau serves as an example of how you are supposed to forgive your enemies and how your worse enemies are those in one's own family. Didn't the Jesus character tell a parable about that?

    Esau's inbred family got ticked off because he refused to commit incest and knock-up his relatives. Where does that fit on your scale of morality?
     
  15. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Well-Known Member

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    Did you see all the fuzzy words and sentences? Like this one, "Our discoveries may make people reevaluate the longevity of molecules and the presumed pathways of molecular degradation, but they do not really deal at all with the age of the Earth." Yet, then there is several statements about this very same age of Earth. Your conclusions inside this entire post is unscientific and maybe unethical. Using "Geologists" at the Hell Creek Formation is circular as the same Geologists are going to of course support their own fraud fallacies. And, if she doesn't want anyone to use her data, then don't publish it. That's ridiculous that she has a fit over people using her data against her conclusions. By the way, it false that ICR scientists don't do their own scientific research.
     
  16. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Well-Known Member

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    Esau sold his birthright for a bowl of soup. How is that being a saint? And, people in modern times are more civilized in the middle east? The Taliban are so civilized. ISIS only chops off heads as does Al1Qaeda. Today, with our advanced science, we run around allowing men to say they are women and are supposed to believe them. That's a real advanced civilization?
    No, the Bible is not fictional. It's not a detailed book as it covers large amounts of time very quickly. But, there was an Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (Israel). There was an Israel millennial ago as well and so it happened.
     
  17. Cosmo

    Cosmo Well-Known Member

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    Ridiculous precisely defines ICR.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2021
  18. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Well-Known Member

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    Now that took some effort. :brushteeth:
    So, she says that her discoveries evaluate longevity of molecular degradation but this has nothing to do with the age of the Earth. Yet, you will continue to fight for saying she proves that age of the Earth is old. :juggle:
     
  19. Cosmo

    Cosmo Well-Known Member

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    It appears your understanding of the subject is highly insufficient in order to render any valid judgment.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2021
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  20. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Well-Known Member

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    One finger pointing at me and 3 pointing back at you. No, it's pretty simple. The molecular degradation should have disappeared millions of years ago. But, it hasn't completely and still plagues the minds of her and others. When people say what you say, it's well understood to be a cop out and admission that they are wrong.
     
  21. Cosmo

    Cosmo Well-Known Member

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    I get that alot from YEC'rs that can't support their religious beliefs with science.
    *yawn*
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2021
  22. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    We now have the knowledge to study DNA. If it were really dinosaur DNA we might be able to insert it into a stem cell and see what it grows into. But, yet, no dino. Did you ever think of that?
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2021
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  23. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    Have you forgotten what the Jesus character said about sharing? Scummy Jacob violated all of the Jesus character's teachings. Read those sections of the fairy tale again.

    Why are you so eager to become an eternal slave? That is your destiny per the biblical fairy tale.
     
  24. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Donor

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    Actually... near death experiencer Dr. Kevin Zadai has stated that he was shown during his near death experience, (or it may have been later on during a similar spiritual experience), that Moses was given the Book of Genesis while he was up on the mountain for one of those forty day periods of time.

    I have a book on my desk here entitled "The Bible Code" by Michael Drosnin that goes into amazing details on hidden meaning in the Book of Genesis that would have been very difficult to find until we humans would invent computer technology.... which the Book of Genesis does hint at that we would eventually do.

    "And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do." (Genesis 11:6)



    USA: AUTHOR OF "THE BIBLE CODE" MICHAEL DROSNIN DEFENDS HIS BOOK

    17,664 views
    Jul 21, 2015





    The Four Layers of Secret Code in the Bible, Explained


    I am of the belief that somehow the stick of Joseph will be twisted together with the stick of Judah when the hidden meanings in the Fast of Yom Kippur are finally understood......
    (Ezekiel 37)

    I've been researching hidden meaning in the ancient Jewish traditions since I was a teenager in the 1970's.

    http://www.politicalforum.com/index...f-elijah-needed.499830/page-7#post-1072901354

    Something very strange seems to be happening in our time period..... near death expereincer Rabbi Alon Anava has an experience that reminds me of Isaiah chapter fifty three..... .which is a whole new thing to the Rabbinic Jewish community.





    Is there life after death? Is G-od real? Jewish NDE (Near Death Experience) Rabbi Alon Anava


    At the 33:00 minute mark in this astonishing video I am hearing an experience that can be compared to Isaiah chapter fifty three!

    I believe from the context that the Apostle Paul at least questioned if perhaps he.... could volunteer to fulfill the role of the 'goat for Azazel?"

    https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/rom/9/1/s_1055001

    I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,
    That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.
    For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:

    Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;


    If in fact Paul did pray and offer to become like the Yom Kippur goat..... then that could help to explain how vehemently he was hated by his own people?????

    Something truly unusual about the near death experience of former Atheist Rabbi Alon Anava is that his experience reminds me of Matthew chapter four and his teachings after are very much in line with Matthew chapters five, six and seven....... very basic down to earth teachings of Judaism.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2021

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