What is the ultimate goal of gun control? Is it about guns? About control? Or saving lives?

What is the ultimate goal of gun control? Is it about guns? About control? Or saving lives?

Most of the arguments about gun control focus on the number of deaths or are about how important it is to save lives. I'm in favor of saving lives.

With saving American lives being the focus, I started looking into some of the statistics I often see thrown around and this is what I came up with.

If it really is about saving lives then efforts should be redirected from guns (dealing with a Constitutional issue is always touchy) to areas with easier solutions and the possibility of saving more lives.

According to the CDC National Vital Statistics Reports dated Nov. 27, 2017,
data for 2015:
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr66/nvsr66_06.pdf

79,535 died from diabetes mellitus
57,062 from influenza and pneumonia
49,959 kidney disease (nephritis, nephrotic syndrome and nephrosis)
47,478 accidental poisoning and exposure to noxious substances
37,757 motor vehicle accidents
33,381 falling
22,018 suicide from firearms
21,028 alcoholic liver disease
18,671 suicide from other than firearms
12,979 homicide by firearms
7,430 died from obesity (we need to pair up these folks with those in the next group)
5,222 died from nutritional deficiencies! In America! That's more than died in mass shootings this year.

Maybe if the plan is to save lives the effort should be put towards avoiding accidental poisonings and motor vehicle accidents. Those are not likely to become Constitutional issues. Maybe we could help people stop over-eating or over-indulging in alcohol. Research indicates the majority dying from diabetes and kidney disease are contributing to their own demise. They are consuming too much food or alcohol. It could almost be considered suicide or at least suicidal.

Just thoughts for saving lives in the U.S. if it is strictly from the numerical perspective.

 

In the last couple of years, there has been a surge in opioid overdoses. Last year there were 66000 of them.

More than double all firearm homicides and suicides combined.

 

Almost 500,000 people die every year from Tobacco and Tobacco related diseases, this topic is obviously not as interesting or as Sexy as Gun Registration or Gun Bans after a mass shooting, However it gives pause as to why nobody raises an eyebrow in view of nearly Half a Million deaths from non firearms related deaths.

C.D.C. statistics

 

For most of history, gun control, weapons control, has been about opposition control. Only in the latter part of this century did Americans (not the UK) adopt the narrative of gun control saving lives as an attempt to attract political support using emotional appeals while vilifying and casting those in political opposition as evil, self serving, threats to the populace, little different than Hitlers condemnation of the Jewish population in Europe...using the same tactics.
The UK’s path is an interesting study...
http://www.libertarian.co.uk/lapubs/histn/histn043.htm

 

Don't forget to find an avatar to go with your moniker.

@Lee Atwater is the only guy whom I tolerate not having an avatar, so the virility-male sign becomes HIS avatar and nobody else's.

 

Gun legislation boils down to two things.

Either a constituent is unfamiliar with guns and therefore fears and hates them.

Or else he/she is proficient with guns and therefore loves them.

The various state legislatures usually go with the pulse of their constituents. That's why California, NYS, NJ, Mass, Hawaii, NYC and Chicago are communist.

And also why Arizona, Alaska, Montana, Vermont, most of Dixie south of Maryland, and most of the Intermountain West all follow the 2nd Amendment.

 

Gun control is about the state having a monopoly on force, something that cannot happen so long as the citizenry remains armed.

 

When you see how insulting and condescending some posters here get, even very nice sounding educated words like Empirical evidence and demanding scientific proof, yet the most vaunted studies offered, all admit to guesswork.

If Gun control was the true answer, it would not be the utter dismal failure, it has proved to be after better than a Century to prove it's point, moreso, if you count back to 1764 and Cesare Beccaria and his essays on Crime and Punishment.

After a good trouncing, they resort to insults and simian like who flung dung tactics.

Highly appropriate.....

 

its proves what I have been saying for 40+ years. gun control is a tactic statists, liberals, Democrats and welfare-socialists use to attack the NRA and pro gun voters because we rejected the DNC's scheme 50 years ago where they tried to pretend they were doing something about crime by passing stupid gun control laws because they didn't want to upset several of their major constituency groups (urban blacks, the ACLU, and bleeding heart apologists for street criminals) by actually cracking down on violent street crime when Dems ran all three branches of government

of course they are condescending towards those of us who reject their schemes-we after all are the enemies they want to attack with crap like "Magazine limits" "assault weapon bans" "waiting periods" and "registries"

 

600,000 Americans die from heart disease every year. That doesn't mean we shouldn't address deaths due to other causes. I don't think there are any Constitutional barriers to most forms of gun control. The courts have upheld bans on assault weapons, bans on large capacity magazines, bans on concealed carry, waiting periods, gun free zones, gun registration, bans on machine guns and laws prohibiting felons and domestic violence offenders from owning guns.

"Since 2008, there have been over 1,230 Second Amendment cases challenging gun laws nationwide, with an overwhelming majority—93%—of the lower court decisions upholding those laws."
http://lawcenter.giffords.org/prote...court-leaves-lower-court-victories-untouched/

 

I agree wholeheartedly. I feel death due to all causes needs to be addressed. But if death itself is the problem shouldn't the effort to reduce death be concentrated where it would do the most good and save the most lives? Do we as a nation need to look at what is causing the most deaths per capita and start there with death reduction?

 

the purpose of gun control is to harass the people who vote against liberal politicians while pandering to slow witted sheeple who want SOMETHING done about "crime"

 

Like former long time Mayor of Washington D.C. the late Marion Barry, very Anti Gun, yet in view of his own Cocaine convictions, wanted to appear tough on crime.

Marion Shepilov Barry was an American politician who served as the second Mayor of the District of Columbia from 1979 to 1991, and again as the fourth mayor from 1995 to 1999.
Wikipedia
Died:November 23, 2014, Washington, D.C.


The hypocrisy of these Politicians and their chicanery knows no bounds.

Gun control is the only possible way for these Politicians to appear law abiding...
By appealing to the low wattage Sheeple......

 

79,535 died from diabetes mellitus
57,062 from influenza and pneumonia
49,959 kidney disease (nephritis, nephrotic syndrome and nephrosis)
47,478 accidental poisoning and exposure to noxious substances
37,757 motor vehicle accidents
33,381 falling
22,018 suicide from firearms
21,028 alcoholic liver disease
18,671 suicide from other than firearms
12,979 homicide by firearms
7,430 died from obesity (we need to pair up these folks with those in the next group)
5,222 died from nutritional deficiencies! In America! That's more than died in mass shootings this year.

Maybe if the plan is to save lives the effort should be put towards avoiding accidental poisonings and motor vehicle accidents. Those are not likely to become Constitutional issues. Maybe we could help people stop over-eating or over-indulging in alcohol. Research indicates the majority dying from diabetes and kidney disease are contributing to their own demise. They are consuming too much food or alcohol. It could almost be considered suicide or at least suicidal.

Just thoughts for saving lives in the U.S. if it is strictly from the numerical perspective.[/QUOTE]


gun control is about money , politics , self important egos and cult like thinking...as for reducing homicides , targeting the killing fields in the hood where 13 % of the population does 50% of all homicides would be a start but that won't happen

 

gun control is about money , politics , self important egos and cult like thinking[/QUOTE]
This is called whataboutism. We can do many things at once

 

We can do many things at once

 

Another one of your profound statements.

And again I agree with you, 100%.

The problem is that we are not doing "many things at once". As a society we are ignoring many of the primary causes of avoidable, unnecessary deaths and concentrating our efforts in specific areas which only scratch the surface.

I spent a little time in the military some years ago. If my commander had suggested the unit could do many things at once I would have believed him. If he followed up by placed 90% of the manpower guarding a 500 foot cliff because someone might climb it to attack and then placed the other 10% to guard an open field on our flank I would have thought him mad.

Multi-tasking is great but common sense should prevail. (note the use of "common sense", this is where it should be applied - not to gun control laws)

 

Well there are special rules in the military that pertain to battle, many of which are outlined by Sun Tzu.

Concentration of force is usually accomplished by establishing a 25% to 33% reserve, not by committing your whole force to any one specific task either on offense or on defense.

You throw in the reserve where and when you need it, either to exploit a gap on offense or to plug a hole on defense. They teach this in war college.

Different story.

 

Exactly!

Gun laws are implemented in communist states like California, NYS, etc. to appease the dim witted majority of residents there who want some kind of legislative fig leaf to solve a crime problem which cannot be solved by any means.

 

This is a gun control forum. That is what we discuss here. The world has many problems but they are not all solved here

 

To answer the op....its about saving lives

 

nope-that is the dishonest facade the anti gun owner movement claims motivates them

its belied by the fact that all their laws target honest people and do nothing to change the environment of criminals

 

Another of your one-liners. Care to expand on the topic?

 

Sure. Just not to you. Lol