From Investopedia, here: What's wrong with the American Tax System? Excerpt: The above is the punishment we get by voting for Replicant control of the taxation-system all these past years we have elected their candidates into the presidency. They have been screwing around with their favorite subject! Taxation ... ! PS: Why do you think the rich and super-rich fund candidacies into the political governance of the nation? PPS: We gotta take BigMoney outta the political-election process!
Excerpt: A lot needs to be done - but it is well worth the effort to bring more "fairness" to the Tax System ...
Everyone hates taxation! And most everyone will cheat the IRS in both big and small ways. No one ever asks the question; How much federal taxation is necessary to properly operate the nation? I see Biden will be asking for $6 trillion in the next budget. Most people will vomit at this number but in actuality is this number high or low or just right? The ROOT problem is no one knows this answer! So IMO it's always stupid to have dialogue about taxation when no one knows what the actual expenses should be. And with taxation, if you ask 20 people their opinions, you will get 25 varying answers none of which are based on facts. And herein lies the root problem...if we can't decide how much we should actually spend, how can we talk about taxation?
Well, actually if the USA got out of the Middle East wars we would be awash in cash. I haven't been paying attention about how much we spend now, but I remember when President George W Bush was in office he was going to Congress every month asking for $800 billion in emergency spending. As far as spending goes, we're entering an era of HUGE government spending. People are going to be sticker shocked because everything we do is more expensive now and they fell behind because their pay hasn't risen with inflation. They will blame government spending instead of realizing they got left behind. However, it's not too late to pay off our debt. It will just take a very, very long time.
An article in in the NYT today quoted research done by ProPublica on the amount of Federal Income tax paid by the the 25 wealthiest citizens int he US between 2014 and 2018. (That analysis was in turn based on raw data apparently 'leaked' from the IRS. ) Anyway during the period in question the people concerned (I'm sure you all you know some of the names - Benoz, Bloomberg, Musk etc) increased their collective net worth by aprox 401 billion USD. While doing this and at the same time they collectively paid approximately 13.6 billion USD in Federal Income Tax. That's an effective tax rate of 3.4%. I didn't know Federal Income tax rates in the US were so low! Congrats to all US tax payers out there on PF, unless your by chance one of the 25 that must mean your all paying even less. I envy you.
And yet the “rich and superrich pay a massive share of income tax revenue, out of proportion to their share of taxable income:
Oh HORRORS, 25 PEOPLE allegedly didn’t pay their “fair share” based on shaky or stolen IRS data. ‘scuse me if I yawn.
The Problem with the American tax system is that the federal tax code is 44,000 pages, 5.5 million words, and 721 different forms long. If you can afford to hire an entire law firm to find all the possible deductions and exemptions (read: loopholes) you can pay virtually no taxes. Those of us that cant afford to hire an entire law firm end up fitting the entire bill. It must be simplified. Drastically and categorically. Until it is, all efforts to increase revenues will only result in the lower and middle class shouldering more of the burden while the rich continue to pay law firms to exempt them.
So you don't deny the figures are true. You just don't care. Sound argument. BTW what difference would it make if the figures had been released lawfully, you think the numbers would add up differently?
Actually, since I wrote tha tpost I did a little more digging and found out ProPublica’s numbers are fudged by including the gains in those people’s stocks and other holdings, so the article is bascially a lie. From the link in the OP:
What 'lie''? The article clearly stated that the 401 billion dollars quoted represented an increase in their collective net worth. That's the definition of income from all sources. You have a point that you could separate out capital gains fro income tax but it doesn't change things much. For example the Tax Policy Center estimates that in 2019 US taxpayers with incomes over $1 million received over three-quarters of the benefits of lower rates (regardless of type) while taxpayers earning less than $75,000 received just 1.2%. As currently structured in the US Capital Gains Taxes are effectively regressive. No reasonable person should want wealthy citizens of the US to pay much more (if any) as a % of their total annual wealth increases in tax. It should however be a principal of natural justice that they pay more or less the same amount expressed in percentages as the statistical mean.
Source please ... ! What do Americans really-think about Upper-income Taxation? See here: 70% of Americans say U.S. economic system unfairly favors the powerful And here's my graphic in response to yours from Pew Research:
posted elsewhere on the thread What people think and what the data supports are too often not related.
THE RICH IN AMERICA ONLY GET RICHER Yes, and their taxation (a massive share of a Massive Amount of Income) is still "Not Enough"! Compared to what it once was long, long ago! The Replicants "flipped the chart" when Ronny RayGun got elected! See for yourself here: What you see above is a continuous battle since the inception of the Income Tax in 1912! It came way down in 1925 in the midst of a serious economic downturn only to shoot up again in 1931 - where it was maintained throughout WW2 until 1963 when - of all people - JFK reduced it. Then, movie-star Ronnie RayGun as POTus brought it down even further in 1981. It is now around 40% and yet the riches keep piling into the America's mega-billionaires. AND THE POOR CAN GO-TO-HELL Just what IS the "Poverty Threshold"? This: In terms of income, it looks like this: And how many Yanks live below the Poverty Threshold (for, say, a family of four earning $26K/year)? Answer from here: Fourteen percent of our population are "in the poverty-hole". Now, get this from here: Richest 25 Americans reportedly paid ‘true tax rate’ of 3.4% as wealth rocketed): Excerpt:
Great one-liner reply! How eloquent! Go look up the word "debate". If you know how to read English, that is ...
SOCIETAL-CAPITALISM Look, enough of the childish-exchange between us. And enough of the one-liner comments that waste bandwidth! Yes, I prompt what I call the Rabid-right in America because they have an economic-concept that is one-way - meaning this: The Economy Is All About Us, Us, Us! NO IT AINT! Like liberty, the economy is about all of us! And, by that I mean - just as "Speed Kills" so does too much money at the top! Yes, like-it-or-not the political-precept above is called Social-Capitalism - the common notion of which is "What is best for the people as a whole within a True Democracy is its primary political-and-economic objective". Whyzat? Because there is No Reason why abundant riches should aggregate to the top. Taxation is the means of assuring fairness. Not like Communism tried to do and failed miserably. But employing a concept called Social Democracy - where the first-principle of any economy is the Ethic of Economic Fairness. So, what is Social Democracy? *Antiquated definition: A political movement advocating a gradual and peaceful transition from capitalism to socialism by democratic means, whereby the means of production were owned and run by the state. *Modern Definition: A political movement advocating a capitalist market-economy with caps on the personal/individual accumulation of capital-riches whether individual or corporate. The Socialist definition is that the means of production are all owned by the state. We have seen how that failed. With the exception of China, where the economy runs perfectly well at the common-level, but with the personal-accumulation of capital the Chinese seek to live elsewhere. Which obviously means that families decompose. MY POINT? The Mixed Definition that is taking form in Europe (mostly) is that capitalism is the key operative-factor of any economy; but also the practice of After-tax Generated-Wealth Sharing by means of taxation. And how is that done? For example, chiefly by high personal-taxation that allows the financial-means for government-run no- or low-cost National Healthcare Systems and Tertiary-level Education for all students. Which is not all of the consequences but enough for debate-starters ... !
Wrong! Fairness is allowing people to earn and keep as much as possible of what they earn. Redistribution to accomplish some ill-defined goal of “fairness” is idiotic. The “modern” definition is just as foolish and idiotic as the old one. Governments exist to provide opportunities not outcomes. “Wealth-sharing” is double-speak for theft. We need to strive to ensure that people have the opportunity to advance to the maximum level of success and wealth their abilities, ambition, and determination will take them. Period. For those incapable of participating (note that I side “incapable” not “unwilling”) we need some level of safety net to provide a baseline. Taxing or appropriating any form of wealth for the purpose of giving to someone else is immoral, undemocrative and just plain stupid
The latest government data show that in 2018, the top 1% of income earners—those who earned more than $540,000—earned 21% of all U.S. income while paying 40% of all federal income taxes. The top 10% earned 48% of the income and paid 71% of federal income taxes. Over time, high-income Americans have shouldered a larger and larger share of the cost of government. Even the 2017 tax cuts—reviled by the political left—reduced tax bills for the lowest-income Americans by 10% while only cutting taxes for the top 1% by 0.04%. After the tax cuts, the rich pay a larger—not smaller—share of income taxes. In fact, by almost every measure, the U.S. has one of the most progressive systems of taxation in the world, in which high-income people pay the highest tax rates. Looking at all federal taxes, the Congressional Budget Office shows that the top 1% pay an average federal tax rate of 32%. The data show tax rates decline with income, and the poorest 20% of the population pay an average tax rate of just 1%. The left-leaning Tax Policy Center found similar results. Just looking at all federal taxes ignores the effect of state taxes, which tend to be less progressive, but make up a smaller share of total taxes paid. The liberal Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy estimates that combined federal, state, and local taxes are still quite progressive. It found that in 2020, the top 1% paid a 34% tax rate. The poorest 20% of Americans paid an average 20% cumulative tax rate. The data also show the highest-income taxpayers are the only group that pays a larger share of total taxes than their share of total income. Congressional Budget Office estimates show that when benefits are included, the lowest-income 60% of Americans are net beneficiaries, receiving more in social insurance benefits and means-tested transfer payments than they pay in taxes. In contrast, the highest 40% of earners pay significantly more in taxes than they receive in benefit payments. The highest-income 20% of Americans have increasingly shouldered a larger share of the cost of government, their net contribution increasing by more than 200% since the 1980s.
That bit of red above means Absolutely Nothing !!! What is important is Comparative Wealth and in that regard the Top 10% were - compared to the rest of us - On The Moon. Whyzat? Because Americans have this foolish notion that anybody who has BigMoney must be smarter, braver and a nicer person. Bollocks to all that nonsense! For a long, long time America had very high taxa
You're all diatribe1 Fact is the wealthy pay the lion's share of federal income taxes...again...this is a fact. How about the novel idea that EVERYONE should pay their fair share of taxes?
