When a Christian joins the Masons...

Secrecy is as dangerous as privacy. Everyone has secrets and everyone values their privacy. As we are FREE men and citizens entitled to our rights, our privacy, we should not be compelled against our will to disclose our membership. I do disclose my membership and proudly wear my ring, but if my leadership came to me and said I had to involuntarily say if I was a member, I would refuse.

From what I read of your post, and your assumption of "high-standing police and judges" you think that nepotism runs rampant in our Craft. I would like to correct this assumption and point out that nepotism will occur with anyone who has some kind of relationship or connection.

Private organizations have nothing to do with Democracy and really are Constitutional (which is what I think you were getting at). We are FREE men exercising our constitutional rights. Our legislative and electoral processes are however very similar to the Democratic process, although America is a Republic not a Democracy. Plus I'd like to point out that many of our most influential Founders were Masons.

You cannot say we are an "incubator of corruption" and the most you can do is be nothing more than another mouthpiece of Fear Inc.

 

What's your name? Why should you be unwilling to tell ME your name, if freemasons should be forced to?

I am a member of a secret society, the Phi Kappa Sigma International Fraternity. Groups like this are men banding together for their common benefit. There is nothing sinister, merely brotherly.

 

seriously, go back and re-read what you posted? The cornerstone thinking that is horribly flawed is that you assume the "secret oath" is somehow controversial. And I guess to a guy who wants to enslave others, it is controversial because it says we respect each others right to think for themselves.

Masonry, as an organization, only has a few real "secrets" and they are "words". The rest is pretty open. The value comes from PROCESS, not secrets.

Yes, Masons promise to keep each others secrets, this is critical to create an environment where good men can help each other become better. We all have our demons and weaknesses. If I can not trust you to keep your trap shut I am not about to disclose my weaknesses in seeking assistance. I have expected this from all I have called friends since childhood, and expect it today, from men who are Masonic Brothers, and those I trust who are not.

Masons, as an organization, have no real secrets. We ope our writings, our buildings, and all but our business meetings and open to the public. That is the conspiracy nut running around in the heads of drama queens and those seeking excuse for being a victim. MASON'S as individuals, have secrets, guess what, all men do.

So change the faulty assertion and you will have a more accurate picture of an organisation built upon the ideas of Plato, st Augustus, St Christian, Galileo, and all of the great thinkers about how mankind should develop himself to be in a position to live as free men. And yes, including the teachings of the Carpenter of Galilee.

Of course, those who really want to follow the teachings of Marx, Stalin, the 13th Century Cardinal of France, and the like, MUST use false assertions and inaccurate claims to justify the end game, which is to discredit any attempt to deny anyone the right to enslave others.

And yes, I mean exactly what I stated. Fully 50% of the world lives in slavery and tyranny. There is a reason this exist, it is the teachings of communist, socialist, tyrants, and the like. To think some of that thinking has not infected America, a nation of 300 million plus, is insanity and negligent.

Those folks are here, they exist, they are vocal, they make these arguments, and they truly are the enemy within.

Here is a way to PROVE what I have stated. We all know most any part of Masonry can be bound on the internet if desired. So instead of looking this stuff up and going "wow, that is a good organization" the conspiracy nut must refuse to know of that which he speaks. Chosen ignorance is the preferred tool of those who are afraid of the truth.

 

I was going over a blog of a fellow Mason and author, Cliff Porter, when I found this little gem:

 

This is a totally different argument. And in short, in order to accept this as valid (that you pray to Jesus first), you have to throw out the First Council of Nicaea, and also reject the trinity and the common meaning of John 14:6:

Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

You are most closely approaching the issue of this as a Jew would. The followers of the original covenant only pray to God, because it states right in the laws:

Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

When you hit on this, you are reaching a controversy that is older then the Masons, and stretches back to even before the Christian Church was created. And to a believer of other viewpoints (or a Jew), just the idea that somebody would care what Jesus would think is rather laughable, since he is not God.

I am actually rather entertained at this discussion though, since it gives such a great example of why people need independent and non-biased references. I am sure that I can come up with references that the world is run by mice, but that does not make it real.

 

Voting in the United States is dangerous as it is secret.

Voting for Unions in the United States is currently secret, but some people want to make it public. But many oppose this, since they believe that such public voting will cause those taht oppose unions to become victims of retaliation, maybe even violence.

Well, if one statement is true, then obviously the other statement must be true also, right?

יְהֹוָה is also a secret, and anybody knowing this must be destroyed.

 

Very good point. Many people, including some of those cooky fundamentalist, enjoy the freedoms of this country, but completely ignore history and how we were founded. We were founded in secrecy. Our Founders had to hide and meet in secret to bring about revolution and keep running the operations.

 

I am not against all secrets but secret organizations are dangerous. Secrets there breed other secrets such as parallel structures (red masons). Masons do not even know where they are and what people are at the very top. The Soviet Encyclopaedic Dictionary says that Decembrists (Masons) influenced all the revolutions which followed (in Russia). That includes Lenin's revolution. Remember the red stars on the Kremlin and the bolshevik motto "Be prepared - always prepared!" I have no fear. I am 65. I just know what it may lead to. Not all the revolutons were positive.

 

Like I said in my post on Page 3, secrecy breeds trust. Everyone has secrets.

Red Mason? Do you mean Royal Arch? How is you think you know how we are structured when you also state that the members themselves don't know who sits at the top? Logically speaking, the members would know more than you would. Can you even describe to us how we are structured and how each body operates and works with other bodies?

The Soviets can say that all they want, doesn't make it true.

 

THE secret, the really big one, I mean the one that no one with out the super secret handshake and super decoder ring is.......

I control it all.

Yep, me, I control it all. Remember when you stubbed your toe a while back? Yep, I did that. global warming? yep, the fix is in and I did it.

Yep, Social security going broke, obama pushing fake green jobs, the collapse of the soviet unions, I did it all. I am grand poo ba of the royal order of super secret controllers of the universe, I control all money supply, all water distribution, all mankind actually. Even your dog, you know, when he is not listening to you He is listening to me.

And if you don't straighten yourself out I will make the sun come up in the west. You best bow down before me or I will make your life suck even more! I might even make your milk spoil early!


This is not one ounce less silly than the whole "secret society" discussion. The whole "secrets" discussion is make by people so desperate to be a victim they have to CREATE their own little illusion of someone else in control. This is done for one ob of the following reasons:

1) These people lack morals and need justification of their actions, the "he steals from others, so I can steal from him" thing.

2) a treatable psychical condition that should be treated with medications under the care of a trained doctor.

Oh, and of the second is your condition, I did that too.... shhhhh.... don't tell anyone, it is a secret.

What to know one signal you can not trust someone? When they start talking about how someone else is screwing them over, some nameless, how faceless, entity exist.... they are using that to emotionally justify their own actions.

 

For all those anti-Masons:

SCAPEGOAT

1a : one that bears the blame for others b : one that is the object of irrational hostility

2: a goat upon whose head are symbolically placed the sins of the people after which he is sent into the wilderness in the biblical ceremony for Yom Kippur​

 

The Sons of Liberty was a secret organization. And without them, we would not have a United States of America.

The Disciples were a secret organization, as were the Apostles that followed. Membership in this group normally meant death.

There are secrets, and there are secrets. I am not so paranoid as to believe that every secret must be revealed, and is sinister and evil in purpose.

After all, are you afraid of the "Secret Santa" at work? What is their ulterior motive?

Heck, are you aware that the Harvard Lampoon is a "Secret Society"? They are trying to take over thw woeld, with such books as "Bored Of The Rings" and "Doone". Quil and Dagger us anither "Secret Society". Among it's members is E. B. White (he wrote the novel "Charlott's Web"), Paxus Calta (Anti-nuclear and green activist), and Kenneth S. Brecher (he now rins the Sindance Fil Festival).

That is where paranoia begins. And I am not a paranoid individual.

 

This is a fairly descent book, but I don't agree with all of what Chris says.

Here is the book description: