When is an abortion NOT an abortion? Focusing on two weeks post conception

How about ectopic pregnancies?

 

Are you suggesting those indicate cancer?
You are silly.

 

Developing babies don't have organs "shut down"--they have organs developing. The heart is beating within 8 days post implantation.

"people?" The personhood argument is a sham and obfuscation. All human beings are people--identifying "personhood" or a lack of "personhood" is just a semantic game to justifying killing some human beings that you want to subjugate.

 

One can treat ectopic pregnancy by removing the infected fallopian tube. A child dies in the process, but the treatment is to the affected tube, not directed toward killing the child--it is treating the disease process, not killing a baby. The death of the baby is a foreseen, but unavoidable consequence of the treatment of the disease process.

 

So dogma is reduced to semantics...

 

Better to ask what is honest in any of your posts.

 

In other words you too, like whaler, make assertions and accusations you can not substantiate. That is of little surprise...

 

Ultimately, yes--because man's "wisdom" is so inane. Life is a self-evident right, except to people who want to kill.

 

It is possible to eliminate the danger to the woman without removing the tube, thereby increasing her chances of bearing a child in the future. Since the so-called "child" is not going to survive in ANY case scenario, why shouldn't the treatment be the one that will cause the least damage to the woman?

http://www.webmd.com/baby/tc/ectopic-pregnancy-treatment-overview

What to think about
Surgery versus medicine

Methotrexate is usually the first treatment choice for ending an early ectopic pregnancy. Regular follow-up blood tests are needed for days to weeks after the medicine is injected.
There are different types of surgery for a tubal ectopic pregnancy-when possible, only a slit is made in the fallopian tube (salpingostomy), rather than removing a section of the tube (salpingectomy). On average, salpingostomy is equal to methotrexate (for an early ectopic pregnancy) in terms of being effective and preserving a woman's ability to become pregnant in the future.3
Although surgery is a faster treatment, it can cause scar tissue that could cause future pregnancy problems. Tubal surgery may damage the fallopian tube, depending on where and how big the embryo is and the type of surgery needed.
Surgery may be your only treatment option if you have internal bleeding.

 

It does not require so much wisdom to acknowledge that killing has been part of man since man has existed. The difficulty is to determine which killing is and which is not sanctioned by God and I prefer to get direct instructions because those relayed by men tend to not be accurate or consistent.

 

Yes. Anything that kills a fertilized egg is technically abortion. Its just a matter of scale.

Is it acceptable? It would be to me. I dont consider it wrong to abort unless there is brain activity. That is when "personhood" begins IMO.

 

It is not at all "self-evident" that one has a right to have his life maintained by another. Giving life is a gift, not an obligation.

 

I've substantiated them plenty of times, but naturally it doesn't look that way to those for whom lies are truth and vice versa.

 

Once given, it should not be taken back without a verifiable legitimate reason.

 

So you are still in full support of late term abortion? Up to the day before birth, without restriction?

 

"Possible" future "problems" does not justify killing.

Expediency does not justify killing.

 

Canada currently has no restrictions on abortion and they're doing just fine.

Do you have any statistics on how many "day before birth" abortions are provided in places like Canada that have no restrictions on abortion though? You make it sound like women do this all the time and for non-medical reason to boot.

 

It becomes impossible to have a rational debate on abortion on this forum. Instantly there are many posters who immediately type the baby is killed. That nullifies any reasonable discussion.

What makes it so funny is that most of those folks support killing in so many other forms or even abortion in certain cases.

Abortion is legal and they just have to deal with that fact.

 

Bull(*)(*)(*)(*)! It was changed because there was a recognition that without implantation development was never going to occur

Just because you found a link on the internet does NOT mean you understand the disorder - and that was only ONE of the disorders I was talking about - I note you did NOT link to HELLP syndrome??

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19223169

This is the classic "rock and a hard place" and it is the same with conditions such as thyrotoxicosis where the treatment for the maternal problem is teratogenic for the foetus and it comes down to saving the mother or losing both

Again your lack of knowledge is showing - a placenta can be considered a "product of conception" and many D&C/D&E's that are performed following miscarriage are done to evacuate the remaining "products of conception"

Getting back to the topic at hand - at two weeks there would be no discernible products of conception more likely a heavier than normal "period"

You think I personally attacked you then feel free to report me and let the moderators decide - after all that is what I do

 

I have to agree with you there - there has even been more than one swipe at me because I requested in the OP NOT to have this degenerate into "it is a baby yes/no" so as soon as I discuss foetus I am accused of, well, it really shows the shallowness of the arguments on the other side that they have little else to post

 

And yet you are dismissing cases where the same criteria applies.

May I suggest further reading on the subject - and while there please respect the people who work in obstetric critical care - we are actually NOT out to "kill babies" and often go to extraordinary lengths to try and save both mother and child - however there are instances where it is not possible to do so. I would respectfully suggest that you allow the experts to make that determination

BTW - have I mentioned that I live in a state where abortion IS illegal? In fact you can be charged and jailed for taking substances that may cause abortion?

Guess what? Our abortion rate is much the same as the USA's - interesting isn't it?

 

There is no argument on the other side. A woman has the right to control her own body and what happens to it. The issue for me ends up as a push to control women. It has very little to do with the abortion as so many of the antiabortion crowd support killing in other forms. Which shows their disdain for logic and human life. They also support abortions in select cases as well showing that it is a control issue and the rest is all talk.

 

Are you claiming Canada has zero late term abortions?

How many murders is too many?

Murder is ok as long as it is done rarely? Is that your position?

 

So likewise should a man be excused for beating another man to death because he was merely choosing what to do with his own body (his fists, etc...)?

This is merely a lie pro abortion types routinely tell themselves to distract themselves from the fact that they are actually advocating the premeditated homicide of the most defenseless people in society.

 

What word would you use for a human organism alive and growing pre-birth? Give me a reasonable term, and I'll use it. I lIke this one: Human Organism Pre-birth Entity (HOPE).

What is legal, is not always moral--refer to the history of slavery.