When will religion be overteken by logic?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by James Evans, Jul 6, 2019.

  1. James Evans

    James Evans Banned

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    There is no invisible man in the sky. Rest easy. What is important is taking care of your fellow man.
     
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  2. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Isn't the question itself a tad old hatted? Reminds me of the old secularisation thesis from the sociologists.

    I'm not religious, but neither can I be bothered with any wasteful tut over those who think differently.
     
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  3. James Evans

    James Evans Banned

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    Wise words.
     
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  4. Diablo

    Diablo Well-Known Member

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    In principle I agree with you, but the effects of religion can be quite bad, from hatred of minorities to overpopulation, theocracies oppressing their people etc. If people would just keep it to themselves nobody would care.
     
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  5. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    But we could also refer to the myriad of the gains. Perhaps suggest thatbthe secularisation thesis refers more to the elimination of fundamentalism over time?
     
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  6. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    You mean like how the "fellow man" was taken care of by the Godless societies of Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao?

    No thanks.
     
  7. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    How do you know this is an effect of religion? Looking at history I would say humans do not need religion to be rotten.

    Blaming the bad deeds of humans on religion is not intellectually honest. This excuse is used to demonize something falsely.
     
  8. Daggdag

    Daggdag Well-Known Member

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    There is nothing logical about making a claim that can't be proven using science.

    An atheists who says that it's a fact that there is no god is just as ignorant as a theist who says the opposite is fact.
     
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  9. Diablo

    Diablo Well-Known Member

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    What gains? I don't see any.
    Certainly secularisation should help to reduce extremism, if that's what you mean.
     
  10. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    We can refer to reduction in consumption of sin goods. There is also some analysis into positive growth effects (although I don't personally buy Weber's Protestant work ethic stuff). And of course we can just refer to the wellbeing gains for the individual. My religious mates do tend to be much happier than embittered ole me.
     
  11. Diablo

    Diablo Well-Known Member

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    The RCC specifically bans the use of contraception which leads to large families and hence overpopulation. That's an effect of religion. Same thing with the suppression of gay rights, also promoted by Islam and jewish and christian fundamentalists. These are the effects of religion.
    Who's demonising religion? I said people should keep it to themselves, that's all.
     
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  12. Diablo

    Diablo Well-Known Member

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    Pity about those who are abused....
     
  13. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Abuse? Irrelevant to most religious folk. Indeed, there is some evidence of higher education investments in their young.
     
  14. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Wrong what is important is empowering your fellow man and woman to be able to take care of themselves and meet their own needs. Just taking care of them as if they are just overly large children, doesn't help and it eventually destroys them and you. That was the underlying pathology that resulted in twenty two dead kids at Sandy Hook.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2019
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  15. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Not in the world of logic. Negatives cannot be proven so there is no point in bringing it up. It is correct to say that religious beliefs are beliefs and not facts. We all have beliefs. It is probably better to accept that let people have their beliefs.
     
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  16. Diablo

    Diablo Well-Known Member

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    I meant those abused by religion, although you could include women who are turned into baby factories.
     
  17. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    Wrong. It is the humans that are reproducing. They are doing it by choice.

    Once again blaming human flaws on religion is what the problem is here. People have responsibilities when it comes to their own actions.
     
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  18. Diablo

    Diablo Well-Known Member

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    These people are being threatened with hell if they don't obey...that's not choice...that's a direct threat...if you can't see that then you're blind.

    There's not much point in continuing this discussion, really, if you don't listen.
     
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  19. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    Threatened? LOL! It is a matter of consequences as a result of a choice.
     
  20. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    I know no one abused by religion. Sorry I don't fit in with your whinge.

    I of course have problems with particularly religions. C of E and their dealings with arms companies? Catholic church and the abuse cover up? Easy to attack. Of course it's just as easy to attack non-religious organisations. I'll stick with celebrating individual choice and reject the "good-evil" games played by the atheists.
     
  21. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    There are myriad threats in this world pretending that hell, which many churches don't even mention any more. is worse than any other is just ridiculous. For instance how is talk of hell worse than telling people we are all going to die in ten years if we don't quit driving cars any different?
     
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  22. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    How can you be so sure?

    Is this the opposite to religion or something?
     
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  23. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    What's the connection to overpopulation?
     
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  24. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    The answer to the question is of course, "never" as long as humans remain human.
     
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  25. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    When humans become machines. The deniers of human nature naturally fail at their predictions and proclamations.
     

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