Where Did the Trinity Teaching Come From?

Why do you keep on skipping the RESURRECTION, there is no contradiction in scriptures. God can not die that is why after the human form died it RESURRECTED thus proofing that God can not die. Unless you are implying that the resurrected Christ is not the same Jesus Christ? The Jesus Christ that died on the cross is dead and did not resurrect then I can accept your argument but the Bible is crystal clear, JESUS CHRIST RESURRECTED.

God RESURRECTED thus even in human form God can not die, God took human form to demonstrate His true love for us to make us aware that He knows what it feel to die as a human. But God can not die that is why God RESURRECTED in the same human form in Jesus Christ, yes can not, never dies = God that is why Jesus Christ RESURRECTED. Now understand the word RESURRECT.

Pay attention to the word "I AM" how many times did Jesus Christ refer to himself as I AM. Now, try to think, why would Jesus refer to himself as "I AM" and then why would God send the Holy Spirit? Then ask yourself who is the Holy Spirit, why not send an angel or why can't God just do it Himself why send Holy Spirit or why send Jesus Christ? Think...think....God + Holy Spirit + Jesus Christ = Trinity, God is performing three different task; directly being with us through Jesus Christ, empowering our spirit through the Holy Spirit and awaiting us in the Kingdom of Heaven is God.

Yes, God can not lie.

So now you are saying that God lied, when He resurrected that he did not actually resurrected?? Do you accept that Jesus Christ resurrected or not? If you accept Jesus Christ resurrected than you would understand that God can not die, it is as simple as that.

 

And in the New Testament, all humans, Jews, Romans, Greeks, Persians, Arabs, all gentiles are children of God.

 

Sure, but they are not all saved from the next extinction and their genetic vine will die out except for the elect who will be changed in a twinkling to new creatures in this existence of God.

 

My life is'nt controlled according to the bible - I've read more than a verse or two, and sufficient for me to have realized that it NOT the word of a god nore inspired by a god. Its at best a mixture of some facts + fiction, MORE fiction than verifiable facts.

I use it as a source of reference coz I know at some time, some barmy bible nutter will start quoting from it and claim it to be " The word of God to His people"

To you , your belief - to me , mine.
....

 

I guarantee you that you don't understand it even half as much as you think you do.

 

Children of god , my eye. .

btw - why are you separating the OLD testament god from NEW Testament god ? are they different gods or is it , the old cruel/ vindictive/racist god with a New image - after a facelift/makeover ?


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I admire your arrogance/chutzpah - to presume to guarantee someone else's lack of understanding + their thinking capacity by exchanges in a few posts.


If you meant to say , that I do NOT agree with what you've been taught/.trained/indoctrinated to believe , then , you're absolutely 100% correct.


..... tatty-byeee.

 

One day you will come to see that what I have told you is the truth.

 

No two gods, just one and the same God, both the OT and NT are of the same God the difference is that in the NT, God expanded His revelations that has been misinterpreted, wrongly applied and isolated by the Pharisees. If you like it is a form of abrogation, New Testament abrogating the Old Testament.

 

So , are you now also claiming to be some sort of prophet/clairvoyant to predict my futire and what I shall " Come to see - one day " ?

LOL - Go read your bible and learn what it says about people who are self-righteous and sanctimonious . Go practice what your bible preach.

tatty-byeee.


....

 

ALTER2EGO -to- WENREN:
Doesn't a person have to be dead before he/she can be resurrected back to life? The fact that Jesus had to be resurrected is proof he literally died. The instant Jesus Christ died, he proved he was not Jehovah because God can never die. The Bible says regarding Jehovah not ever being able to die:


"For I raise my hand to heaven, and I do say: As I am alive to time indefinite." (Deuteronomy 32:40)


"the one alone having immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom not one of men has seen or can see. To him be honor and might everlasting. Amen." (1 Timothy 6:16)


"As for you, O Jehovah, to time indefinite you will dwell, and your memorial will be for generation after generation." (Psalms 102:12)



If Jesus were actually in a trinity and combined into the fictitious "Godhead" with Jehovah, this would have made Jehovah out to be a liar because it would have meant part of Jehovah died. Got it? And who was Jesus talking to as he was dying? Was he talking to himself when he said the followng?

"About the ninth hour Jesus called out with a loud voice, saying: 'E'li E'li, la'ma sabach.tha'ni?' that is, 'My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?' " (Matthew 27:46)



Are you telling me God had forsaken himself? Didn't Jesus know he was talking to himself since he and Jehovah are the exact same God within the fictitious "Godhead"?

 

ALTER2EGO -to- WENREN:
None of your words above that I highlighted in bold and red are in the Bible. The fact that Jesus Christ was created/born/begotten is proof he is not Jehovah. We went over this several posts ago; remember? Why are you returning to the same arguments that I previously debunked? The Trinity doctrine says Jesus and Jehovah are CO-ETERNAL—meaning they supposedly always existed at the same time.

Christendom's trinity, written in Article I of The Catholic Faith, is defined as follows:
"There is but one living and true God, everlasting, without body, parts, or passions; of infinite power, wisdom, and goodness; the maker and preserver of all things both visible and indivisible. And in unity of this Godhead there be THREE PERSONS, of ONE substance, power, and ETERNITY; the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost."
http://www.victorianweb.org/religion/39articles.html


The words, "ONE ETERNITY" mean all three persons of the Trinity cannot die. But Jesus Christ died, proving this dogma to be a lie.

DEFINITION OF "ETERNAL": Eternal means not having a beginning or an end.
http://www.yourdictionary.com/eternal



Jesus had a beginning, because he was born/created/begotten. On top of that, he had an end because he died for three days before Jehovah resurrected him back to life. Or are you saying God died and resurrected himself? You don't care what the Bible says; do you? You will go with Article I of the Roman Catholic Faith, quoted above; right?

Understood.




I gave you scriptures that refer to Jesus as "firstBORN of all CREATION" and the "only-BEGOTTEN son." You rejected the scriptures and went with what the Roman Catholics said in Article I.

"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstBORN of all CREATION;.." (Colossians 1:15)

"So the Word became flesh and resided among us, and we had a view of his glory, a glory such as belongs to an only-BEGOTTEN son from a father; and he was full of undeserved kindness and truth." (John 1:14)

The words "born" and "begotten" apply to CREATED BEINGS according to any English dictionary.


DEFINITION OF "BORN": "Born means having been given life."
http://www.yourdictionary.com/born


DEFINITION OF "CREATE": "To cause to exist; bring into being."
http://education.yahoo.com/reference...y/entry/create
http://www.yourdictionary.com/create


DEFINITION OF "BEGOTTEN": "Begotten means something created something else or someone fathered a child."
http://www.yourdictionary.com/begotten



Jehovah existed before Jesus. How else could God have created Jesus unless he existed prior? Therefore, Jehovah and Jesus Christ are not CO-ETERNAL. We've been over all this before. Your love affair with this false teaching of trinity is causing you to reject correction from the scriptures. Somehow you seem to think this is a contest that you are supposed to win against me. This is not about me, it's about what the Bible says. By serving a Trinity god, you are engaging in false worship that Jehovah will not accept, because God is not a Trinity.

 

ALTER2EGO -to- WENREN:

No, I'm not the one saying God lied, you are. You are saying God lied by insisting Jesus and Jehovah are the same people despite the fact that Jesus literally died. None of what you're saying makes any sense, because that would amount to God dying and resurrecting himself.

In any event, this conversation between us on this topic is over. I've done all I can to reason with you from the scriptures. You consistently reject what the Bible says, because you prefer to believe in the man-made trinity—TRADITIONS OF MEN—that was dreamed up by the Roman Catholic Church in the 4th century AD, more than 300 years AFTER Jesus returned to heaven.

"{6} he must not honor his father at all. And so you have made the word of god invalid because of your tradition. {7} You hypocrites, Isaiah aptly prophesied about you, when he said, {8} ‘This people honor me with their lips, yet their heart is far removed from me. {9} It is IN VAIN that they keep worshipping me, because they teach COMMANDS OF MEN as doctrines.’" (Matthew 15:6-9)


You've demonstrated that you're not interested in being corrected by God's word, the Bible. It's all about what you choose to believe. If you post anything else to me on the Trinity in which you're arguing in support of it, I will not respond.




I encourage you to pray and ask Jehovah to help you open your heart and mind to correction from the scriptures.

 

You are praying to the wrong Jehovah and reading the wrong Bible, very simple question;
DO YOU ACCEPT THAT JESUS CHRIST RESURRECTED OR NOT?
ARE YOU A CHRISTIAN OR NOT?
DO YOU ACCEPT THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT IS NOT A THING?
DO YOU ACCEPT IN THE INFINITE POWER OF GOD?

If you accept all of those then there is no reason why you can not accept the Trinity.
And if you can not accept those, then you are not a Christian and you are basically addressing the wrong Jehovah. By the way, who is the Jehovah that you keep talking about?

Again, you are skipping the part that Jesus Christ resurrected therefore God did not die, they thought he died to die mean never to rise up again. As I have said, if Jesus Christ did not rise up from the dead then I will worship your Jehovah but as it turn out Jesus Christ did not die because he resurrected making your Jehovah a false god or a minor god.

 

I've answered your questions in post #49, which you responded to..............

 

In both verses it says "I will send"...........thats saying Jesus is in control.......I can't send something I don't control...........and John 16, never mentions the Father.

 

is this in line with the watchtower?

 

So now, The Father is equal to angels?????

 

Present this scripture below, and ask him how he would explain it in light of his position. I would ask him myself but he has yet to answer my last two post to him, one of which he said he was looking forward to.

Jesus said He proceeded from God

John 8:42 (KJV)
42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

 

Where does it say Jesus is an angel? Where does it say an angel is God?

 

Your mistake is your using definitions of the English words that are a translation from Greek.

What if the translator chose the wrong English word or phrase in his translation?

Translators can make mistakes, can't they?

You did know there are many many mistakes, errors, omissions and outright deceptive translated passages in Scripture, don't you?

You're also taking passages out of their context, aren't you?

 

I believe it is, that is why I ask him explicitly first identify his religious belief, if he is Christian or not.

Christians are followers of Jesus Christ who worship him and accept the Trinity. Even if he is not a Christian I will still answer all his concern about the Trinity but he needs to be honest about his religious background first.

And so far, he has refused to answer if he is a Christian or not. I believe he is a Mormon and the book or bible he is using is the book of Mormon which is full of corrupted doctrines such as his claim that Jesus is a minor god, the Holy Spirit is a thing, that God is Jehovah. That God died and did not resurrected

Mormons just like Muslims have failed to identify or define what their books have reveal to them the presence of God the Father, Holy Spirit and Son of God, they hide behind their failure by attacking the Catholic church.

 

I believe He's JW

 

ALTER2EGO -to- KERUX:
You are quoting from John 10:30. That verse is not saying Jesus (the son) and Jehovah (the Father) are literally one person. Instead, it's saying they are united in purpose aka they are in agreement.

By ignoring the context (the surrounding words, verses, and chapters) you drew the wrong conclusion. Without context, any meaning can be assigned to various words because the words are just floating independently. The result is that people with preconceived ideas and false beliefs end up assigning whatever meaning they feel like assigning to the words because it lines up with their flawed belief system. Notice the context below. It comes a few chapters later within the very same book of John. Remember, context refers to surrounding words, verses, as well as chapters.

"{20} I make request, not concerning these only, but also concerning those putting faith in me through their word; {21} in order that they may all be one just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, in order the world may believe that you sent me forth. {23} Also, I have given them the glory that you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are one." (John 17:20-21, 23)


Now let me ask you this rhetorical questions: Is Jesus saying that all his disciples will become one person in combination? Logic tells us that's not the case and that instead Jesus is referring to unity of purpose. Yet, when he uses the exact same terminology with reference to himself and his heavenly Father, Trinitarians jump on that and insist that it's proof of a 3-prong god.

 

ALTER2EGO -to- KERUX:
I agree that the Word was Jesus Christ. That's not what's being disputed by me. The expression "the Word" is a title. Jesus Christ is Jehovah God's chief spokesman, thus the title "the Word." The dispute is whether Jesus Christ and Jehovah God are the same God. The scriptures indicate he is not.


Jesus is a minor god in comparison to Jehovah. He was created directly by Jehovah and is the most powerful of God's angel. But the fact that he was created by Jehovah immediately prevents him from being equal to God and likewise prevents him from being combined in a trinity or in a duality with Almighty God Jehovah who existed long before him.

"So the Word became flesh and resided among us, and we had a view of his glory, a glory such as belongs to an only-BEGOTTEN son from a father; and he was full of undeserved kindness and truth." (John 1:14)


The expression "begotten" applies to CREATED BEINGS according to any English dictionary. The fact that Jesus Christ (the Word) was begotten/created by Jehovah makes it impossible for Jesus to be equal to God or be combined with a God as a trinity or anything else. A created being cannot be equal to the one who created him.


DEFINITON OF "BEGOTTEN": Begotten means something created something else or someone fathered a child.
http://www.yourdictionary.com/begotten



Your quotation of John 1:1 is from a Trinitarian version of the Bible that deliberately translated it as "the Word was God." In reality, it should have been translated: "the Word was a God."