Where is the answer to this mess?

You can't see the forest for the trees.

Social mammals 'care' about others because they trust that that care is beneficial and reciprocated. When we don't have that trust (because we don't know the person), any 'care' has to be compelled. When it's compelled it's always inferior care, and more importantly - it fosters even greater isolationism/individualism. The very last thing you want in a 'caring' citizenry.

You can't teach people that they have no need for the social responsibility of tribalism, but then expect them to be socially responsible. It's insanity. Illogical to the max.

 

We are animals in the sense that we evolved into our present forms from other animals. But we have a consciousness, a spirit that separates us from the rest of the animal kingdom. Our egoic mind is the animal mind, the tribal mind. It has been very necessary for our survival as we have evolved.

We have another mind, a higher spiritual consciousness. We are at the point in human evolution when we are able to recognize the egoic mind for what it is. We are able to observe it, observe the thoughts it produces, and recognize that they are of the ego, not our higher consciousness. We are able to set aside the animal lizard brain that always wants satisfaction, "more, more more". When we are able to consciously make this distinction, we realize all that is left is love for our fellow man. Humanity is finally reaching this point. Some have not reached that point yet, and are stuck in their tribal way of thinking. This will be less and less common as we continue to evolve physically and spiritually. The world will be a far better place for it. The tranistion process will be a painful one though. Those who are sucking humanity dry, the elites, the politicians, the capitalists, the dictators....none of them want this evolution to occur. That want to keep humanity ignorant and divided, blissfully unaware they are just cogs in the machine that is keeping them wealthy and powerful.

 

Dude, stop watching Star Trek.

 

I'm more of a Star Wars guy. Isaac Asimov is good too.

 

Why would the number of departments make a difference?

Anyway, how is the federal government suppose to oversee revenue transfers to the states? Some states are much poorer than others--should the people in those states do without?

 

Spot on. Somewhere, somehow, humanity devolved. We are only at a fraction of our potential.

 

What are we supposed to do with the unemployed in twenty years when high-speed wireless, artificial intelligence and quantum computing put millions out of work? We are going to have a serious problem on our hands. I don't have the answer.

Those groups, especially younger people, are unwilling to accept the discrimination they accepted in the past.

You must be older because younger people are much more unified in what they want than you might imagine. I taught adults and high school students for several decades. Younger people tend to sympathize with the ambitions for equality that you appear to oppose.

Have you considered that some of your "playful banter" may come off flat?

Being serious about something is being "weird/serious" and can't be tolerated? Higher income groups have no reluctance to get serious about pursuing their interests.

 

My condolences.

 

Josh...
Major part of America's problems right now come from the many people who are detached from reality, taking the position that rather than cope with the challenges of life, life should adjust to present them no challenges. Besides the fact of that being impossible- it promotes weak people who simply can't stand on their own. There is a person here for you whose is responsible for your welfare, your happiness, your success- and it's you. Not the government, not your employer- you. Everyone has that supporting person, but a hell of a lot of people don't require that person to do their job, and then blame the undesirable result on someone else. It's easier than taking responsibility, but it just doesn't work, and you lose your power to do anything different. It sounds rosy at least to some in theory- but it can't work, it can't sustain itself.

The world has millions of species of life, which have thrived for millions of years. Thrived- not just survived. Those species make their way in life with nothing more than they were born with. The use no gimmicks to ease the challenge. No government, no religions, no lawyers, no schools, no subsidies or welfare- yet they have all done very well..... and they did that without poisoning or trashing the planet or using up all the natural resources. What we should be asking ourselves is- What do they know that we don't know?
Their secret resource is that they- every living thing- was created with everything it needed to thrive. Not easy, but it is all there. Then- humans came on the scene. We not only can't manage our own lives, we find it necessary to make the planet hazardous for everything else. Fact is we have that same gift of everything we need to succeed just like everything else does- and yet, we do the worst with it. We should have brains enough to use our exceptional mental capacity to advantage, but we don't do that well. We imagine an alternate reality- and when it doesn't work, we blame it. IF anyone is to blame- it's us. First individually, then in the various constructs we create trying to make us behave and live successfully. You have the capacity to call the shots in your life. What really matters isn't what happens, but how you react to it.

Facts you have wrong-
Wages.
If you are an employee, you are not a slave, not owned, not controlled. You are in fact in business for yourself, selling your personal product to a customer for a price you both agreed on. The differences between you and the person or company you work for are all in your favor- you get a vast number of fringe benefits and legal protections in the arrangement, but your customer get none- not from you, not from government.
You compete, just like your customer does. He wants the best buy for his money when he is a customer- just as you do when you are a customer. He is NOT running a social welfare agency for your benefit, he is trying to make a business work. His responsibility is unlimited, while yours ends at quitting time. The most you can lose is a customer- but he can lose everything he has. You can collect unemployment; he cannot. You have nothing invested or at risk in the arrangement- he has everything. You are free to leave and find a new customer- at any price you can get. IF you think your product is worth twice what your customer is willing to pay, all you have to do is find one who agrees with you. Employers compete for good help- IF you are good help, you will be in high demand and paid well. If you come in with a chip on your shoulder and do as little as possible, they will pay you- as little as possible. But YOU always have the choice. IF you aren't satisfied- leave.

Management-
It's true that many in management make many times more than the average employee does. Among the many reasons why that is legitimate is the value of what they produce. A CEO of a company is like the captain or navigator of a ship. They mainly make decisions- but if those are not the right decisions, the ship and everyone on it goes down. That takes vision of the future, courage to act boldly when needed and the ability to position the company to be in the right place at the right time to grow and prosper. That is a rare skill, and can easily make even hundreds of millions of dollars of difference in a company's success. Directors of these corporations don't pay those CEO salaries because they are stupid, but because they are buying a skill that will more than pay for itself. IF you have that skill- you can make that money too. But don't think that is measured in physical power or sweat- it's not.

Now I have some direct experience here, as I founded my first company in 1967, and seven more since then. I know a number of entrepreneurs whose names or brands you would be familiar with. I've worked for them, with them, and always took advantage of the opportunity to learn from them. That's over 50 years of experience, covering a vast range of situations. I still own and manage a small corporation. Small, but doing business in around 110 countries. I've dealt with unions, with governments, with military, with corporations of all sizes. Might have learned a little about this along the way.

If you think business is easy and anyone can do it, by all means- hock everything you own and open your own business as soon as possible. Be rich in no time at all.....

 

It all sounds well and good, but can EVERY person own their own company? Can EVERY person be management? Why should the damned hard work of a construction laborer be worth less than that of a CEO? Why should a banker be allowed to create money out of thin air, loan it out, and generate interest off of it, when literally no actual energy was expended in the process? And then use those earnings to invest in other things. Buying up capital with non existent energy? This gives capitalists a larger share of the real energy economy when no energy was actually expended on their part.

Nope, the global economic system stinks, and it is rigged. There are a very few who are able to become ultra successful, but 99% will never reach that. I’m happy for you that you were so successful. Can you honestly say that some kid in the inner city, or someone from the heart of Africa has the same odds of that kind of success as you did? On paper, maybe the answer is yes. In the real world, those kids don’t have a snowball’s chance in hell.

 

How real is that potential, when it can't be realised? Our social mammal nature can likely never be sufficiently extinguished as to render us the nameless/faceless androids-of-care that our pal dreams about.

And yes, we have devolved. That's the point I've been trying to make all along. We were much better carers a few generations ago .. when we had circles of trust and active social responsibility.

 

1) Why do you HAVE to do anything about them? We're all free to start planning now for that eventuality, as we see fit, thus future-proofing our lives. It's not your concern (or mine) how others choose to manage their own future.

2) Let's hope so. Let's hope they mean it when they say they want to end race-based policies and the like. Let's hope they mean it when they say they want an end to judging others according to race, rather than character. We'll see, I guess.

3) No, they're really not. Just in my own broader circle alone, there are young adults ranging from hipsters who think the world owes them because they have some kind of artist ambition, and who spend their free time making privilege-driven declarations about the evils of capitalism - right through to conservative kids hell bent on achieving absolute financial security by the time they're 30.

4) Good to know youngsters are in favour of EQUALITY, rather than equity.

 

Lol, so your answer to devolving is to stay that way? Brilliant.

Nameless faceless androids of care? Lol, what does that even mean? You think caring for your fellow man makes you an Android, but somehow if you only care for less people then you are what? Suddenly full of personality?

A few generations ago black people couldnt vote. Gay people had to hide who they were. People with mental illness were labotomized. The rivers were so polluted that you could smell them before you saw them. Yeeeaaahhh... really great at looking out for each Other! Oh wait, that’s right, they didn’t look or act like you, so they’re not worth taking care of.

Your tribalism is garbage. It pits one group against others. It creates elite statuses, elevating certain humans above others. There is no room for it if we are going to fix this worlds problems.

 

1) No, my answer is to stop the thing that is actually 'devolving us' !!!

2) You're suggesting that we will lose all sense of tribalism, and be more caring. Tribes form a significant part of our personality/character/identity. Take that away and you're left with human shells .. who 'care' as though they're programmed to do so.

3) Yes, the sorts of improvements which can happen without any need to eradicate tribalism. I don't think you grasp that by tribe, I mean CIRCLE OF TRUST. That can come in any shape, colour, or form. It's a function of familiarity and stability within a group or community. It has nothing to do with race, and not even necessarily blood - though the family is the most successful bullwark against disaster. Our tribe could be a group of friends who remain answerable to each other, and are stable and responsible - precisely so that the group retains its power to care for each member. It creates a system wherein no one is 'not worth looking after'. The failure of our tribes, is why there are so many who need care. We have abandoned answerability, in favour of the self.

4) On the contrary, it allows for peaceable neighbourliness. When we trust that each tribe will refrain from burdening their neighbours - by being ultimately responsible for their own tribe - we can be better 'friends'. As for elite status, I have no idea what you mean with that, sorry. Some groups will always be richer/healthier/whatever than other groups. Nature abhores a vacuum.

 

So you think that somehow having society where you can trust more people than just your immediate friends is a bad thing that somehow drains your personality? That makes no sense. Somehow a small group looking out for each other is good, but if everyone looks out for each other, that’s bad? Nonsense.

 

1) No, I'm saying it's not POSSIBLE to trust seven billion people. It's a profound absurdity to think it's something that we could just decide to do, and that that would magically make seven billion people trustworthy.

2) Everyone can't look after everyone! Again, it's an absurdity. The very most we're mentally, emotionally, and physically able to care for to the degree that would eradicate the social ills which are increasing daily, is probably about 100 people - at a stretch. If you place the burden of care of more than that upon us, you will only ever get the kind of 'care' we see today - which is basically very little. And it will get only worse, the more you push for individualism in the way that you are. The more isolated we become from each other, the less we will care, or be able to care even if we want to. That isolationism we have enabled, cuts us off from giving/receiving care .. and is the very reason things are so bad now.

 

Your limitations are all that is possible when mankind follows its human ego. When we evolve past that, silence our egoic mind, and listen to our higher consciousness, the limitations you describe will disappear. It is a process which will take centuries or more, but this evolution will take place. It’s already started, and there is no stopping it. Humanity across the globe are waking up to the fact that they have been lied to, and that artificial limitations have been imposed on them to keep them controlled and enslaved. The endless wars, destruction of the planet for human greed, exploiting our fellow man, all of it will come to an end. I’m sure from your perspective that sounds absurd. You are stuck in your limited perspective. One day you will escape it, in this lifetime or in another one.

 

You are wrong. So much depends on your being able to focus on the opportunities instead of the obstacles. There are more opportunities in the worst of times or conditions over the best- because there is more need. The opportunities are dramatically different, but certainly prolific. Fewer people see them; they don't look like easy, low hanging fruit. I think of South Korea at the end of their war when the country was in shambles. The government was trying to restore infrastrucure, but couldn't find anyone willing to take on the task. They were approached by a man named Chung Ju-yung, who said he could, and he would. He had no company, no funding, but they had nothing to lose. The man had vision and hustle however. He started making deals with people, and got enough together to complete his first project, and the government just kept on sending him projects. He's dead now, but what he built lives on. The worlds largest ship-building facility, the largest cranes, heavy equipment, cars, and much more. you recognize his work by the brand name Hyundai.

Can every person own their own company? Yes. Because you do right now. You are the person responsible for making that company work- you are the CEO, as well as the only employee and person to benefit from it's success. The process there is very much the same- just on a smaller scale. Management simply means seeing to it that things happen in a productive way- so you "manage" the functions of life everyday. How well, how broadly, how effectively you match that to the coming conditions is a matter of-your own competence, which is also something within your control to change. The limitations to what you can do- come mostly from yourself, not the world.

Why is the work of a construction laborer worth less than a CEO? While that is obvious and already answered, it's because anybody can do the construction laborer's job. The skill is not special or rare- nor much of a skill anyway, it's simply physical work. But would you hire a construction laborer to do your heart surgery? The doctor spent 10 years learning his skills. The laborer spent 10 minutes. The doctor must be right in every move, and precise- and your life depends on him. The laborer digging up your sewer line can be digging in the wrong place, and the worst that can happen is that your lawn is a mess- or your underground utilities are damaged. It's not the CEO's labor that brings the big salary- its the skill and the vision. The ability to foresee the changes in the markets and economy, to know how to position that company to be in the right place when the changes happen- to keep the machine running smoothly and profitably. . He could do the laborer's job- but the laborer couldn't do his. The value of the product you produce, the results you can deliver, determines the value of your services.

If I came to you, and said that if you hire me and pay me $1,000 a day to manage your affairs- I will make you a $2,000 a day profit you aren't making now. Would you hire me? Or tell me you can get a construction laborer for $15 an hour?

Now- could the laborer have become a CEO? I have a son-in-law whose first job at 17 was a welder's helper. now he's in his early 50's. He has steadily moved up the ranks of business, and has been managing factories and projects since he was 32. The executive head-hunters call him frequently trying to hire him for their clients. Income including benefits- now close to $500K. No degree or special education- but a lot of savvy, a lot of hustle, a quick learner- and an excellent manager. I have no college degree either. I started my first business with a few tools and an old pickup truck- financed by the last paycheck of the job I quit. I opened a store by convincing the owner to let me pay the first rent after I'd sold something. I asked 6 wholesale companies to give me small lines of credit, and take a chance on me- and 5 did. I've never worked for anyone else except my customers since. But I always saw myself as becoming a businessman, a successful person. I wanted to be the best I could be. I always looked to myself to make that happen, not to others to do that for me. That made me responsible for my own success or failure, and that is what gives people the power they need to succeed.

Consider investing. I'm a self-taught investor, managing my own portfolio. This is taking part of the income you make, and making that go to work for you- making a second income while you are making a first income. I had a customer some years back whose career was a school janitor. His wife did house-cleaning. They had four kids, all of whom they sent through college. They were black. When Jim died, everything was paid for and his estate was well over a million- and investing made the difference. No special training needed to do this, but of course you can't be a fool, you have to be willing to learn how to be good at it. Anyone can start investing with less than $500. Not dependent on anyone- you have total control. What's more, you can find a huge amount of material online to teach you how it works. It's not automatic, you do have to become skilled and wise, and know your weak and strong areas. All mind skills, no physical labor. I won't say there's no sweat, but it's a different kind. It's all about making the right decisions at the right time, same as a CEO does. It's being the CEO of your financial future. More than 50% of Americans have some kind of market investments. Most do not manage their own portfolios, but if you will and you are good at it, you can do very, very well. I am very good at it; at least my numbers say so. Can a laborer become an investor? Absolutely.

The average rate of failure for a new-start business is 50% within 5 years, and the large majority don't last 10. It's not easy, but the physical part is not the biggest element determining success or failure.

It's hard to convince people that they all have the potential to be a complete success, but they do. Most don't know where that potential is or how to find it within themselves- and unfortunately, will not try, and most can't be taught how to try. Thus some wind up as laborers, and some wind up as CEO's. But both have the same basic equipment- a body and a kind of computer we call a brain, which is capable only to the extent it's programming allows. IF you can re-program your own mind, you can change everything in your life for the better.

Right now.... we have to figure out how to solve the mess we are all in, which can best be described as the collapse of logic, of values and common sense. That too can be done- we just have to figure out how.

 

I agree for the most part- but the perception this is a chronic problem is a bit short sighted. The problem is more like a small leak that has turned into a huge one that threatens to sink the ship if we don't fix it.

 

I absolutely agree that people have potential. But I disagree that capitalism is a system designed to help us reach that potential. It is designed to harness the efforts of the many to improve the wealth of the few at the top. No, not everyone can be their own CEO except in name only. Are these corporations of one that you are describing going to make anywhere near what a CEO of say Microsoft or Amazon are making? I think not.
How much better off would all the workers of Amazon be if they all had an equal share of ownership and equal share of the profits that Amazon makes? How much better off would they be if they had a say in how the business would run? Would it be as efficient? No, likely not. But employees would have greater satisfaction, quality of life, and sense of ownership, which in my opinion is of far greater value.

 

Heres a few starting points.

1. Abolish the IRS. Every company and citizen pays 10% across the board. No need for audits, loop holes, and different configured tax strategies. No tax refunds.

2. No elected official can serve any term more than 8 years

3. No corporate donations to candidates

4. No elected official campaigns lasting more the 4 months

5. Any elected official that proposes impeachments or criminal citations against another elected official will be held criminally accountable for unsubstantiated claims.

6. All media outlets will pay heavy fines for every broadcast of news to be uncovered as fake propaganda. Any media group licensed as news will not be allowed to maintain such license providing their political opinions. No more 24/7 political opinions controlling the narrative on licensed news media.

7. No executive orders governing any states rights will be recognized

8. Any state that does not adequately respond to destruction of businesses and civil rioting come under immediate federal response until the situation is remedied.

9. No control of the House or Senate will be given to either party.

10. All voting locations and vote counting will be hosted by equal party registered representation

Thoughts?

 

I admire your vision and tenacity. I really do. But, it kind of reminds me of Leonardo Da Vinci thinking that he could invent a flying machine 500 years ago and, by george, we did just that, 400 years later. It also reminds me of Libertarians who keep on thinking people will get tired of Republicans and Democrats and some day their party will actually become relevant. So, come 2016 and 2020, what actually happened? With the two worst nominees in the history of the country in 2016, Trump won and in 2020 Biden got 81 million votes, Trump got 74 million votes, and the Libertarian candidate didn't even get 2 million votes. After all of these years, the only three "Libertarians" who actually hold office in Congress had to run as Republicans to win because the Libertarian party goes nowhere. And yet Libertarians still hang in there with their vision and their tenacity hoping beyond hope that the seeds are planted and 400 years from now they will be a relevant party. But, seeds don't always grow and even if they do, weeds can crowd them out.

I'm in my 60's now and I just don't see anything changing in my lifetime. I had really hoped that in 2020 Republican John Kasich had talked about an Independent run with Democrat John Hickenlooper as his VP and that would have been great for the country if they had done that and won. Apparently they deep sixed the idea. I must confess I haven't been following this thread much other than talking with you so if anyone had any great ideas I'd like to hear them. I'm sick of both parties but I also understand reality.

 

No matter what the configuration of an economy is, there will be greater and lesser performers. But there is a reason why some excel and some don't try, just as there are people who climb mountains just o prove it can be done- and people who think they are crazy, because that's work. You could make everybody that wants to play a member of the New York Yankees team too- but the games would hardly be worth watching. It is the people who excel that drive the economy. The average worker benefits greatly from that- but rarely appreciates it.

Let me point one other thing out. Virtually every manager including the CEO's have been employees. Before starting my own business, I tried many jobs, none of them promised much- but then, I can look back and say I wasn't bringing what they needed to the job either. Point being- I've been in the position to know what employee frustrations are, as every manager has. On the other hand, the number of employees who have been business owners, been in the position of being responsible for the success of the company- is virtually zero. It's like I've walked in your shoes down your path- but you have never walked in mine.
That gives you a perception that is incomplete to say the least. You are going to draw conclusions from your experience- and your assumptions of the rest. Life is a challenge. It presents barriers and complications both from nature and other people. Some rise to the challenge, others just complain it's not fair and insist that it should be. This will always be true. I made the effort in the last post to show you the potential that you have; you are telling me that it's not fair that it's not automatically working for you. True- it's not. And no system will make that happen, but you can. It's a choice- and most people will choose to look for the easy answers. That's why some people are CEO's, and some people are laborers. You and I have exactly the same tools to work with. 1 brain, two hands, one average body. Depends totally on how you choose to use those tools. Nobody can do that for you- not me, not government. IF government is to give you an easy life, it must take the means to do that from people who are producing a lot more than their share of results. Take the fruits of their labor away, they will have no reason to excel- and then, there will be no source for the subsidy to those who are dependent on the system. EVERYBODY loses.

Take your vision of a company owned and operated by the workers. Seriously, go ahead and start one. Prove it can be done successfully. There are such companies where all workers are stockholders... but they still hire CEO's to run the show for them.

Or, you can become an investor. Then, you own part of the company, and depending on the configuration, you get dividends from profits or gains in stock value. You can do that right now, without turning the economic system upside down. Of course that requires your contribution.... and I see you telling me you think you should have the benefits, without having to make that contribution. So- I guess you won't do that.

Nothing is free. You either earn it, or somebody else pays so you don't have to. But the most valuable thing in my life and in the lives of many very successful people- is self-respect. If I took something for nothing, I'd be selling that. I once had a hard-nosed union guy come up to me and try to hand me $10- no strings attached. I told him I don't take what I haven't earned, and he was baffled- because he sure would have. He was trying to prove that I was just like him... and he was wrong. No sale. Not at any price. Did you accept the covid checks? I didn't. I've never taken an unemployment check either, nor anything I didn't earn. I have been poor, broke and without a place to live too. I had cancer and needed surgery when I had no money or insurance- and I negotiated terms and paid my own bills. Had to live in a storage space one winter to get back on my feet and do that. Point is- I do know what hard times times are like. Been there, done that. Didn't ask anyone to fix it for me. What does not kill you makes you stronger, IF you face it. Nobody has a bigger stake in your life and future than you- so you should be in charge of it, and likewise, not be interfering with anyone else's right to do the same.

All depends on one's point of view, and your determination.

 

I think that these are the best suggestions so far... as part of the answers we need. The question is how are we going to get that in place?
To deliver the goods, you need a vehicle- and a road map, so to speak. A way to do something, a way to get that plan in place. If we could just tell congress to be good... this crap would never have started in the first place.

 

Good for you- and I think you will like what's coming.
DaVinci had the vision, but lived in a time lacking the means. We have the means for this today. I fully agree this is something far outside the box.... but totally possible. The core concept is already there. Before too long, the concept should be distilled down enough to go public. It WILL be something you have never seen before. Many educated and influential people have taken a look at it as we progressed, and agree it can work and will have profound results, if we can get it in place. Working on those details now- that's why this question is up here.